Author Topic: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A  (Read 2512 times)

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Offline paulsails01

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Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« on: Sunday, October 20, 2013. 09:40:52 AM. »
I need to pass on my experiences with my modifications to the above subjected Compensator, I followed with much interest when Ron and Richard passed on their experiences and information and which was a help in my decision making.

Although my sled is only a relative light bike (09 FXST) compared to the Tourer's, I was experiencing noise and at certain drive evolutions unnatural or excessive vibration, final decision was to replace stock Compensator about the same time as Ron and Richard were discussing the issues that they were (and others) having.

After some 8,000 kilometres I am happy to report that the engineering modifications to this Compensator have been relatively successful to date, and from visuals I expect to get a lot more mileage out of it yet.

I did not go the full nine yards as Ron and Richard's engineered Compensator, preferring take small steps to start with, I did not include the catchment tray in my modifications but instead worked the Sprocket retainer, the Compensating sprocket and the Sliding cam.

Possibly the success of the lubrication about the bore of the Compensating sprocket and the Sprocket retainer journal lies with the angled drilled flutes in the Sprocket retainer, my thinking is that when rotating the "scooped" shaped drill holes catch and channel oil/vapour to the bore surfaces.

On the Sliding cam ramp contact surfaces and the corresponding contacting surfaces of the Compensating sprocket's spokes, I faired and polished away all uneven surfaces, ensuring as smooth as possible contact surface. Pictures will show some scuffing, to be expected considering the forces at play here, but I have seen a lot worse on this forum from a lot less mileage.

I should add that the oil I use is a 15W40, initially I was using Mobil-1 V-twin 20W50 but after much research decided on a mineral oil with more frequent oil changes.

Anyway if this can be of use to someone well and good.   Paul


 

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Offline Richard K

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #1 on: Sunday, October 20, 2013. 10:36:11 AM. »
 :chop:
Very good job
Now we wait and see how the new version works out.

Offline mattVA

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #2 on: Sunday, October 20, 2013. 12:35:32 PM. »
Can you describe the vibrations you felt with the stock compensator and at what RPM's generally they occurred?
2009 FXDF

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #3 on: Sunday, October 20, 2013. 09:47:20 PM. »
I like it...

Max
Aka Mousinator, Another Wasted Minute With Max,
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Offline No Cents

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #4 on: Monday, October 21, 2013. 03:44:54 AM. »
 :up:   :up:   :up:
nice job!
Thats the best looking comp I've seen when some miles put on it.
What size drill bit did you use to enlarge the hole?
Just curious...why did you only drill out one hole...and not one direct across from the one you drilled out?
little barn built 124"er with help from wfolarry, Kirby Apathy, and Jim Kennedy

Offline paulsails01

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #5 on: Monday, October 21, 2013. 12:42:37 PM. »
:chop:
Very good job
Now we wait and see how the new version works out.
I am a tad sceptical about the new compensator, but hell who am I ? yes I will be keeping an eye on this new Compensator.
Can you describe the vibrations you felt with the stock compensator and at what RPM's generally they occurred?
The vibration happened at gear shifts up from 1st to 2nd, not sure about definitive RPM, I can only guesstimate at about 2800- 3200 RPM. Should also mention that a "clunking" sound was probably the very first notice, but this has subsided considerably, (actually I dont even notice now), with more kilometres and the newer Compensator with the mods.
There is no comparison with old Compensator to new Compensator.
I like it...

Max

I also viewed your modifications Max, I was in the process of stripdown for last visual when your thread hit the media channels, as usual you spared nothing.
:up:   :up:   :up:
nice job!
Thats the best looking comp I've seen when some miles put on it.
What size drill bit did you use to enlarge the hole?
Just curious...why did you only drill out one hole...and not one direct across from the one you drilled out?
I apologise for the pic's, I did drill out two (2) holes in the Sprocket retainer both at about 19 degrees to the horizontal plane and directly opposite each other.
Drill holes are 5 mm. Closer inspection will reveal that the mouths of the holes have been opened up. I used a small pencil grinder for this ensuring that they have a good lead in for the oil catchment.
 

Offline Draken

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, May 11, 2014. 08:28:41 AM. »
How does it work?

Offline paulsails01

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, May 11, 2014. 09:21:48 AM. »
The angled drill holes in the sprocket retainer have "frog mouthed" openings, this allows collection of oil vapour and or droplets during high rotation speeds.  Previous testing by Richard and Ron showed that centrifugal forces whipped the primary oil to the extremidies of the casing and then splashed back covering everything.

Low speed rotation allows oil fluid to surround the lower half of the rotating components and thus some oil fluid enters the openings and due to the centrifugal forces and the angle of the holes, moves to the bearing surface of the compensating sprocket.

I also add a few more fluid ounces of oil then recommended to ensure that I am covering more then half the unit when stationary.

Offline ultrat

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, May 11, 2014. 09:22:51 AM. »
Well done job ,,, my 1st se comp lasted 37 k before noticing a rattle ,, it may have lasted longer but I went ahead and changed it with a new screen in Eagle compensator not the newest one just a replacement se comp ,, I have a 09 flh ,,there was a few weeks when I did not have the new one yet so I put the original back in just to remind myself what difference there is with the Screaming Eagle,,,
 if they would only last longer,,,,,
I too add more oil rite up to the Derby cover opening when bike up rite ,, no problems with clutch 
« Last Edit: Sunday, May 11, 2014. 09:25:26 AM. by ultrat »

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, May 11, 2014. 09:25:46 AM. »
The angled drill holes in the sprocket retainer have "frog mouthed" openings, this allows collection of oil vapour and or droplets during high rotation speeds.  Previous testing by Richard and Ron showed that centrifugal forces whipped the primary oil to the extremidies of the casing and then splashed back covering everything.

Low speed rotation allows oil fluid to surround the lower half of the rotating components and thus some oil fluid enters the openings and due to the centrifugal forces and the angle of the holes, moves to the bearing surface of the compensating sprocket.

I also add a few more fluid ounces of oil then recommended to ensure that I am covering more then half the unit when stationary.

To cover 1/2 the front sprocket, you'd need a bit more than a couple ounces..

Max
Aka Mousinator, Another Wasted Minute With Max,
No Collar to the Bone

Offline paulsails01

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #10 on: Monday, May 12, 2014. 01:13:12 PM. »
I am unsure as to exactly how much I added, I lean the sled over to the right side a few degrees off the vertical, once again not real sure of the exact angle but the point of the exercise is to allow more oil into the Primary compartment, more then if I do it with the sled perfectly vertical.

Last time I did the FXST was some 9 months ago and I poured from a five litre container not really keeping count of the exact volume, just knew that it would not hurt to top up a little more then recommended.

Offline gabbyduffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, June 03, 2014. 08:19:56 PM. »
           paulsails01 can you post a few more photos of how you modified the sprocket retainer (The holes you drilled).
Duffy

Offline gabbyduffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, June 29, 2014. 01:26:30 PM. »
                 Here are a few photos of my pre 2014 SE compensator that I modified after getting the idea from the original poster (paulsailso1)....... if anybody still has the pre 14 SE comp. that is not in bad shape it might be a good idea to modify it. who knows it may last a really long time as long as its getting enough oil...........

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« Last Edit: Sunday, June 29, 2014. 01:31:21 PM. by gabbyduffy »
Duffy

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, June 29, 2014. 04:43:13 PM. »
                 Here are a few photos of my pre 2014 SE compensator that I modified after getting the idea from the original poster (paulsailso1)....... if anybody still has the pre 14 SE comp. that is not in bad shape it might be a good idea to modify it. who knows it may last a really long time as long as its getting enough oil...........

So how did it work??

Max
Aka Mousinator, Another Wasted Minute With Max,
No Collar to the Bone

Offline gabbyduffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, June 29, 2014. 05:37:47 PM. »
                        I originally had smaller holes for the oil to pass threw in the retainer, I put 500 mi on this comp. then I got the call about the peek washer so I pulled this comp. out. I inspected it and it was getting plenty of oil with the oiling tray and the factory oiling tray working together, very little brown color but there still was some discoloration. So I opened up the oiling holes and the oil canal in the retainer to what you see now. I also put the grooves in the back of the sliding cam.
                        Now that I got the 2014 comp. in and quiet, I don't think I will be messing with this comp. anymore. your welcome to do some testing with it if you like. I have lots of time invested in modifying the retainer, I did majority of the work with hand files........  :emoGroan:   I was determined to have a comp. that worked.
             
Duffy

Online BUBBIE

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #15 on: Sunday, June 29, 2014. 05:50:53 PM. »
LOTS of work by hand for sure... Me looking Thinks it is getting a lot of oil into it. You have the momentum of PULLING oil Into not tossing it out.

Great looking and I would have thought it done by Milling with good tooling...

I Only grooved my Spokes Down and Diagonal to Draw oil into and the face the same... Using centrifugal force to PULL oil in...  But not as much as you did...

Mine, (SE "A") is working good and no plans to even look until I need to.

signed....BUBBIE
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Offline gabbyduffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #16 on: Sunday, June 29, 2014. 06:18:53 PM. »
          Max here's some photos with the smaller holes so you get an idea, with the smaller holes it was getting a good amount of oil. I think with the bigger canal it should be all good.

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Duffy

Offline Grasmo

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #17 on: Monday, June 30, 2014. 03:01:39 PM. »
                 Here are a few photos of my pre 2014 SE compensator that I modified after getting the idea from the original poster (paulsailso1)....... if anybody still has the pre 14 SE comp. that is not in bad shape it might be a good idea to modify it. who knows it may last a really long time as long as its getting enough oil...........
whoever did this knows a lot more about this than the average mechanic would know.....this is nice.....I have had some cranks done like that ....and it was on nitro stuff.i can tell that you have been around places that most don't know exist.
07 FXDSE    SERT   Rhinehart 2-1    S&S 585 ez gear

Offline Rokinrider

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #18 on: Monday, June 30, 2014. 04:02:30 PM. »
Was the work pictured done with a die grinder, machined? Curious minds want to know. I would like some details DIY video. Great stuff, modify and make better....
Mclintock! swell party were the wiskey

Offline gabbyduffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #19 on: Monday, June 30, 2014. 07:15:08 PM. »
Was the work pictured done with a die grinder, machined? Curious minds want to know. I would like some details DIY video. Great stuff, modify and make better....

         No die grinder, just made the holes with a laser and a drill press then I fine tuned it with mini files......... its not to bad until you get to the hardened steel.  No magic just determined to get a comp. in my bike that did not rattle or self destruct....... :wink:   

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Duffy

Offline Soft 02

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday, July 01, 2014. 04:45:00 AM. »
Might try this on mine.
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66 Triumph Tiger TR6 DOA

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday, July 01, 2014. 08:27:47 AM. »
Was the work pictured done with a die grinder, machined? Curious minds want to know. I would like some details DIY video. Great stuff, modify and make better....

         No die grinder, just made the holes with a laser and a drill press then I fine tuned it with mini files......... its not to bad until you get to the hardened steel.  No magic just determined to get a comp. in my bike that did not rattle or self destruct....... :wink:

You used a laser to bore the hole?  Or did you use it as a guide?

Max
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No Collar to the Bone

Offline gabbyduffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday, July 01, 2014. 09:42:28 AM. »
                 I bolted the retainer to my bench top drill press, tilted the table on the drill press while eye balling it with a Sears craftsman laser leveler. Its not too bad as long as you don't hit the center hub that's hardened otherwise you'll break the drill bit. You have to break threw where the soft material meets the hardened hub, The outer material is easy to work with, its the center hardened hub that gives you trouble.
                 In theory with enough time and patience and a few files one could turn the retainer into any shape they want, my problem is to know when to leave it alone. I was thinking about turning the lip on the retainer into a boat propeller........  :smilep:
Duffy

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday, July 01, 2014. 11:28:49 AM. »
Good work Gabby, you have some serious skills  :up:

Offline No Cents

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Re: Compensator modifications for #40274-08A
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday, July 01, 2014. 02:17:58 PM. »
I think you executed your plan perfect Gabby!
Excellent job   :up:

Now...does it work like you designed it to?
little barn built 124"er with help from wfolarry, Kirby Apathy, and Jim Kennedy