Author Topic: 103 engine ping  (Read 3124 times)

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Offline eward

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103 engine ping
« on: Monday, August 06, 2012. 06:00:12 AM. »
My 2011 Ultra Limited is pinging. It pinged when the bike was stock so I had a stage 1 carried out hoping it would cure this. I put on the SE air cleaner with Supertrapp 4" stout slip ons. Bought the SERT and had the dealer dyno it. Gained 8 hp and 9 ft lbs of torque. Bike still pings wether in 5th or 6th anywhere from 2600 rpm to over 3000. Any ideas to cure the pinging. New dyno by other shop?

Offline Boe Cole

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #1 on: Monday, August 06, 2012. 07:01:02 PM. »
I seem to recall that the ignition wires give feedback to the computer which adjusts timing if it senses a ping coming on.  If you changed the ignition (spark plug) wires, that 'might' be why the computer is not retarding the ignition to avoid pinging.
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Offline Dennis The Menace

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #2 on: Monday, August 06, 2012. 08:19:47 PM. »
I would take her back to the tuner and let them know exactly where you are getting the pinging.  Gives them a good place to double check what they did.  Also, get a dyno printout and post up here to get some input.  Without seeing it, I would immediately ask what the AFR is recorded at in that RPM range.  Its likely still too lean, but that is just MY GUESS.  Not accusing the tuner of a bad job.  Yet.

Offline SklyWag

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #3 on: Monday, August 06, 2012. 08:45:39 PM. »
What spark plugs are you running.  I have seen several cases, including my own where the performance plugs from HD cause the motor to ping.  Detonation is read through the plug wire & the plug itself.  In each case I have seen going back to the stock plug corrects the issue.

Now, this is all based on, it didn't ping before, what did you do? Answer = in the end was changed plugs.

This does not correst a poor tune.

Offline Bigbluff

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, August 08, 2012. 09:02:47 PM. »
I'm inclined to think a little bit of ignition timing needs to be pulled in the areas where the pinging is happening. The tuner can check the logs the ECM is putting out when he tunes it on the dyno and see where it is pinging and then adjust the ignition timing a degree or two to stop it.

Sometimes I wonder if the only thing some dyno operator/tuners do is check and adjust WOT without checking the rest of the map...especially the cruise range part of the map.
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Offline mechanicalman

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #5 on: Thursday, August 09, 2012. 03:21:07 AM. »
My 2011 Ultra Limited is pinging. It pinged when the bike was stock so I had a stage 1 carried out hoping it would cure this. I put on the SE air cleaner with Supertrapp 4" stout slip ons. Bought the SERT and had the dealer dyno it. Gained 8 hp and 9 ft lbs of torque. Bike still pings wether in 5th or 6th anywhere from 2600 rpm to over 3000. Any ideas to cure the pinging. New dyno by other shop?

I have a 2012 RGU that rattled bad, from stock to stage 1, S&S AC V&H 2-1 pro pipe.  I tried all kinds of changes to the AFR and VE's to no avail.  I had to back down the timing on some cells as much as 9 degrees from the supposed stage 1 map for a 103 touring bike.  The dealer probably loaded a canned map to yours as well.   I kept backing it down in the regions where I detected the ping until it was gone.  It was a major PITA, trying to find the right cells to change, let alone whether it was front or rear cylinder.  I had to keep going back and trying different areas until I got rid f it.  Now I'm in the process of bumping up some of the cells that I dropped that didn't help.  It's a slow tedious process.  Also look for knock retard events in the log files and tweak the areas that it shows KR for RPM, MAP, and tweak the cells near and around this area a degree or 2 and retest. This help me isolate the KR events to the rear cylinder, as it was the only one showing KR in my log files.

Good luck.


Offline clawdog60

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #6 on: Thursday, August 09, 2012. 05:27:22 AM. »
Just for reference try some octane boost, see if the pinging goes away. My 02 carb. RK did it some as stock, still does it with mods and tune. Goes away with booster.  Fuel we buy is not premium by any means plus the ethanol crap just magnifies the problems. Maybe enough tuning hours could eliminate more of it. I want to ride not spend hours tuning.

Offline flh canuck

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #7 on: Thursday, August 09, 2012. 09:21:40 AM. »
My 103" Electra Glide with Stage 2 runs like a champ up here in BC on Chevron 94 octane.

When I rode down to Arizona earlier this summer, it seemed the further south I went, the lousier the fuel got. In Arizona and souther Nevada, my engine sounded like a paint rattle can under load at times and the only cure was to back off the throttle substantially.

Normally the ecm is pretty good at sensing spark knock and backing off the timing but it did not seem to help much down south.
 
I dont think my bike liked burning corn fuel.....

Maybe try different fuel or as previous poster suggested, some octane booster to see if that helps.
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Offline clawdog60

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #8 on: Thursday, August 09, 2012. 10:27:40 AM. »
Whats the point of having a high performance engine if pump gas is laosey. :angry: :down:

Offline pa_ryder04

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #9 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 02:41:06 AM. »
My 2012 bagger has pinged from day one, when accelerating , HD says it is normal, they all do it, and apparently they do from all the bagger owners I have talked with and from reading this thread.

Online Jaycee1964

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #10 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 03:19:18 AM. »
 :wtf: ah, nope... And if they all did the lifter threads would be minimal in comparission.  My 124" @ 10.8 to 1 with 91 octane does not ping at all...
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Online BUBBIE

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #11 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 06:57:06 AM. »
My 103" Electra Glide with Stage 2 runs like a champ up here in BC on Chevron 94 octane.

When I rode down to Arizona earlier this summer, it seemed the further south I went, the lousier the fuel got. In Arizona and souther Nevada, my engine sounded like a paint rattle can under load at times and the only cure was to back off the throttle substantially.

Normally the ecm is pretty good at sensing spark knock and backing off the timing but it did not seem to help much down south.
 
I dont think my bike liked burning corn fuel.....

Maybe try different fuel or as previous poster suggested, some octane booster to see if that helps.

IF you get to Az. again, ride up High in the elevation here,,, above 2000 feet min... I'm at At 4400 feet No rattle & NO COMPRESSION..... :hyst:

Elevation makes our Bad Gas feel pretty good.

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Offline 05FLHTC

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #12 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 07:27:27 AM. »
IME the % of corn blended in the fuel is one of the major contributors.  Every motor is slightly different. The areas we live in have different gasoline blending requirements. The temp of the heads on and on an on.

Bottom line, some octane booster is a cheap easy way to verify that what yr hearing is really pinging.

With that verified an actual witnessing of the map cells that need adjusting with trial and error is required.

The new 103 motors with the CHIT 96" cams are pushing the envelop with cylinder pressures. Then add more air from free flowing exhaust and air cleaner and now you are needing the timing adjusted to meet the needs.

Better suited cams with a touch of overlap and a little later timing to bleed off some pressure would be my advice followed by a good tune from a competent dyno tuner. I doubt you find one in a HD shop. Sorry Brian (HV) but I had to say it.
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Offline SniperJoe

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #13 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 07:31:38 AM. »
For what it's worth I have a stock 2012 FLSTC, 103ci,  with an improved tune ... using premium gas (All 10% blended here) I have not had any pinging since day one.

There was no pinging with the stock tune, but it ran hot with the stock tune and is noticeably cooler with an improved (richer) tune.

Offline Bigbluff

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #14 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 07:39:43 AM. »
My 2012 bagger has pinged from day one, when accelerating , HD says it is normal, they all do it, and apparently they do from all the bagger owners I have talked with and from reading this thread.

Mine pinged until I tuned it out. They don't have to... But the Harley dealer was right about one thing...if you leave the factory tune alone, they all ping...it helps them run hot and burn up hydrocarbons for the EPA...but it is also hard on them and it doesn't have to be that way. Their own dyno tuner, if they have one, could probably get rid of it, but they will likely charge you for the service.
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Offline tdkkart

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #15 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 07:52:28 AM. »
 The addition of the SE204 cam in my 103 dropped the cranking compression enough to dramatically reduce the pinging.
I put timing back in that I had pulled out before the cam change.
« Last Edit: Friday, August 10, 2012. 09:11:06 AM. by tdkkart »

Offline Dennis The Menace

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #16 on: Friday, August 10, 2012. 08:05:12 AM. »
For what it's worth I have a stock 2012 FLSTC, 103ci,  with an improved tune ... using premium gas (All 10% blended here) I have not had any pinging since day one.

There was no pinging with the stock tune, but it ran hot with the stock tune and is noticeably cooler with an improved (richer) tune.

Words of wisdom for all new bike buyers...re-tune it immediately!

Offline trispeed

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #17 on: Friday, August 24, 2012. 12:51:56 PM. »
i wonder about my bike, I have a 'new' (unregistered, leftover) 2011 FLHP police road king. (103") completely stock and I can't MAKE it ping if I try ; even 100 degrees and idling around so that the cylinder shut- off engages....it runs great all around. do the new police bikes have a different tune? How else could we explain the excellent, no ping running? I see so many guys having issues it makes me think about tuning but if it runs so well, should I just count my blessings and leave it alone?  :teeth:

Offline brokenwing

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Re: 103 engine ping
« Reply #18 on: Friday, August 24, 2012. 03:00:30 PM. »
For what it's worth I have a stock 2012 FLSTC, 103ci,  with an improved tune ... using premium gas (All 10% blended here) I have not had any pinging since day one.

There was no pinging with the stock tune, but it ran hot with the stock tune and is noticeably cooler with an improved (richer) tune.
What kind of tuner did you use? Power Com., Screaming Eagle, Dyno, etc.