Author Topic: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?  (Read 4615 times)

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Offline DJ Baar

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Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 08:29:09 AM. »
 :gob:
I have a 74 Stroker Shovel and it had a SIFTON diaphragm (upgrade) clutch that is a tempermental - thing - to adjust.  So I found a 5 stud clutch hub assembly with roller bearings made by V-Twin I bought through J&P (PN 6100020).  After I got it, I had to request instructions from J&P Tech.  I then found-out a couple troubling things.  1. You don't use the steel bearing retainer. & 2. The platsic disc that is used is NOT RECOMMENDED.  V-Twin Instructions recommend a "Ram Jett" disc instead of supplied neoprene disc.  Anyone familiar with this and your thoughts?   :nix:

DJ
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Offline Lew

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 08:57:33 AM. »
Yes, yes and yes.  Get the retainer.  It's adjustable and works to keep the rollers in place and help keep the drum from walking in and out.  I never use the stock retainer, but I believe it can be used with the plastic disc if turned upside down.  Hope this helps.

Lew
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Offline billbuilds

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 09:10:23 AM. »
     Some people have good luck wih the "big fix" bearing kit though I wasn't one of them. IIRC mine came with 53 full length roller bearings. You were instructed to  use 51 and have two for spares in case of loss. Anyhow, I could get 50 to go on but not 51.  Tried several times over a couple of days (you know, sometime you gotta let it set overnite) but no go. Fifty was really not tight enough and, as I say, the 51st would not go. Not trying to discourage you, just let you know what I ran up against. These were both new, the hub and the shell. I ended up coughing up the big bills for a Rivera Pro clutch.
     I'm thinking that there must be a manufacturer's tolerance that make it such that some hub/shell combo's  accept the big fix as it was designed to function and others do not. Then again, there I go thinking again, LOL. Good luck with your clutch. Bill

Online 76shuvlinoff

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 09:34:01 AM. »
I came to believe that Big Fix was for a well worn assembly. I tried to install it on a new hub and shell, way too tight.So I also ended up with a Rivera Pro.

  I see there's a VPC unit for the Rivera now and the guys on the newer model pages are raving about using the VPC on their stock assemblies. It's got my curiosity but then I read about the possibility of needing a derby spacer to clear it, "derby spacer"?. I really like making new stuff work on my pos but I'm holding off on that one for now.
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Offline 79FLH

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 10:19:17 AM. »
  Yep, I used the ramm-jet retainer when I did my rebuild..  Nice & easy..  Runnin a 93" S&S set-up with barnett friction plates..  Easy to install, straight forward on the set-up & final adjustment..  Hope the pics help..
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Offline DJ Baar

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 10:34:10 AM. »
 :emoGroan:  A lot to take in. 

79FLH, That "Ram Jett" Retainer looks just like J&P PN 6300319 Clutch Retainer?  It says its for a 3 Finger Clutch but can be used for the 5 Finger Clutch?

Thanks BIG TIME Guys.  I will let you know what I hear back from J&P and look into Rivera option.  But if I can use what I bought I would like to give it a try.  And I'm hoping the new clutch basket and Barnett clutch discs that I had used with old SIFTON diaphragm clutch hub will work --- (maybe 200 miles on that before had to work the engine) --- here's hoping. :up:

 :scratch:

DJ
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Offline 79FLH

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 11:22:29 AM. »
  Hey DJ, not sure on that J&P #,  I ordered it through the dude that did my bottem end, Think I remember him saying he ordered it through drag specialties,  not sure though...  I am sure that it was a true ramm-jet retainer though..  I put about 8500 miles on since re-assembly with no problems at all,  I'll get her back apart when the snow starts flyin, & I'll know for sure..  Good luck !!
Ride it like ya stole it !!

Offline jwbull

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 11:34:14 AM. »
I use the stock offset bearings and then the plastic tamer, never have a problem, that plastic tamer is the fix by itself. it keeps the clutch shell from walking. I have tried the long bearings but no luck and pitched it.jw

Offline CraigArizona85248

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 08:05:06 PM. »
The old Ramm Jet retainer would not work with the 5-finger clutch hub.  The different holes were bored to different depths and with the 5-finger hub you'd end up with holes bored to different depths at some of the finger positions.  They might have changed the design.  Also, dispite this issue, the retainer might still do it's job.
 
I actually like the "Clutch Tamer" device better.  It uses shims to get the correct clearance between the retainer plate and the clutch hub and is more accurate.  But either device works.
 
Note that BOTH devices are a bandade to cover up a different problem.  That problem is misalignment between the motor shaft and the transmission input shaft.  If these two shafts are properly aligned, the clutch hub won't walk out when you disengage the clutch.  Getting that alignment just right is a pain though.  That's why the retainer solutions are so popular.
 
-Craig

Offline vern

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday, October 05, 2011. 09:39:24 PM. »
I have the 5 finger hub with the ramjet retainer and the big fix bearing, in both my shovels and yea I couldn't get the last roller in on either one but they both work like a hot dam. And the clutch doesn't rattle quite as much.

Offline Mule

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday, October 06, 2011. 05:02:42 AM. »
I believe that you are supposed to hone out the bearing surface in the clutch shell if it is too tight for the 51 rollers...
Edited by Coyote :(

Offline easyricer

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, October 06, 2011. 06:06:18 AM. »
Craig is right. It's all just a fix for misalignment issues. I still have the caged rollers in mine but I do have the 5 finger hub. The ramjet retainer will fit on it but it's very tight. I thought I had a walking problem for a short time but found out in short order that my friction discs were worn to the point of slipping in 4th. I installed the ramjet since I already had it but after replacing the friction discs, have not had a single clutch issue.
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Offline billbuilds

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday, October 06, 2011. 06:42:17 AM. »
     I have the "tamer" installed on my 73 FLH with the enclosed Primo 1-1/2" belt drive, three finger hub and stock rollers/retainer. It works slick. Craig, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Phil Ross more fond of the three finger hubs vs the five finger? IIRC he felt that they were easier to adjust, atleast for his belt drive primaries.  Bill

Offline CraigArizona85248

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday, October 06, 2011. 07:16:12 AM. »
Bill, yes.  Phil did always recommend the 3 finger clutch hubs.  They were his preferred clutch hub.  I've used both and honestly can't say one is better or worse then the other.  I'm running a 5 finger currently on my panhead.
 
Regarding the roller bearing kits.  I've always liked these.  I've bought two of them over the years and both came with 52 rollers.  As Mule mentioned, you only want to use 51.  There should be a open spot where you might be able to slip in one more roller when you are done.  I'm not sure why they sent 52 unless I just got two kits where they sent an extra accidentally.
 
-Craig

Offline dusty1

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday, October 06, 2011. 03:46:05 PM. »
I've been runnin the plastic Ramm Jett retainer w/ the 53 long rollers for years.I did have to hone the clutch basket out a little to make 51 rollers fit well.As for the adjustments on the retainer;just make sure the 3 snaprings are at the same depth.I have run that setup on an open belt drive and my current stock type primary.Never once had a problem,but you will need to re-grease your bearings after a couple thousand miles.

Offline DJ Baar

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Re: Shovelhead 5 Finger Clutch?
« Reply #15 on: Friday, October 07, 2011. 12:10:53 PM. »
Yes the J&P PN  PN 6300319 for the clutch retainer is supposed to work with this - I will let you know how it all works-out after I get it in.  Should be next weekend.  Working a couple later models (05 & 09 Road kings) now too - getting more versatile - LoL!   :wink:

Have a Great Holiday Weekend Ya'all - if ya ain't wrenching - hope your riding!!!  :bike:

DJ

* Bring on the Ol'Skool Hot Rod Harleys!