Author Topic: Removing carbon buildup in engine  (Read 6422 times)

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Offline 2006FXDCI

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Removing carbon buildup in engine
« on: Sunday, August 14, 2011. 12:56:56 PM. »
I have seen sevral threads on spraying water/ sea foam into the t-body with engine running to remove carbon buildup from the pistons and I am wondering if anyone has actually done it and if they were happy with the results. Also could you explain in detail the procedure for doing this. Currently using the SE A/C setup with the breathers routed into the t-body and would like to find a new setup that has the breathers vented to the atmosphere, does anyone make a kit to do this? Thanks for any info.
2006 Super glide 107" , 2005 electra glide 124"

Offline rbabos

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #1 on: Sunday, August 14, 2011. 04:07:00 PM. »
I have seen sevral threads on spraying water/ sea foam into the t-body with engine running to remove carbon buildup from the pistons and I am wondering if anyone has actually done it and if they were happy with the results. Also could you explain in detail the procedure for doing this. Currently using the SE A/C setup with the breathers routed into the t-body and would like to find a new setup that has the breathers vented to the atmosphere, does anyone make a kit to do this? Thanks for any info.
Some of us have converted this internal routing into external, myself included. I posted some of the how to on vt forum about 2 years ago. Two ways to do it and both work fine.
Recently did the water spray on mine. Brought the engine to operating temp and with the element off of the SE elbow started feeding water into it from a misting spray bottle. Starting rpm in the 2k range and spray enough to make the engine start coughing but not enough to lose too much rpm. By using fine spray and keeping the R's up hydro locking is a non issue. I put about 1/2 quart through it over two sessions. It's best to monitor head temps and not overheat the engine. If it gets too hot let it
 cool to 250-260 and start again. More carbon obviously needs more treatments.
I peered into the cyl prior to see the carbon on the piston before and after two sessions. While I wouldn't want to eat off of them, there is a lot less carbon and more shiny piston top visible. After two years of riding my 113 set up to .032 quench, I figured giving it a bit more space in there wouldn't hurt.
This is only a guide line and in no way fool proof against damaging the engine if care is not taken. Done right , it's the fastest way to clean the carbon out, bar none, with virtually no risk to the engine.
Ron
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Offline DblackmanC

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #2 on: Sunday, August 14, 2011. 05:28:08 PM. »
I also do as Ron said.  :up: I then do the same with Sea Foam. I spray it hard at the end and let the Sea foam choke it down, let it sit 10-15 minutes then go ride it kinda hard to clean it out. After both treatments carbon is cleaned out real good.
Dan
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Offline harleyjt

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #3 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 06:56:37 AM. »
When you run water thru the throttle body its kinda like steam cleaning the combustion chamber.  Never done it on a Harley, but many times on autos and trucks. 
jt
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Offline rbabos

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #4 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 04:18:52 PM. »
When you run water thru the throttle body its kinda like steam cleaning the combustion chamber.  Never done it on a Harley, but many times on autos and trucks. 
jt
Same thing, just need to watch out for overheating, due to being air cooooooooled.
Ron
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Offline 2006FXDCI

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #5 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 05:02:35 PM. »
So you are saying it would be wise to put a big fan in front of the engine while doing this procedure? I have one similar to the kind they use when dynoing your bike. Can someone tell me if there is a company out there that makes a complete A/C setup that vents the breathers to the atmosphere? I was looking at the Doherty setups and they look like they do this. Also would it be wise to change the oil after performing the decarbon procedure? Thanks for all your help.
2006 Super glide 107" , 2005 electra glide 124"

Offline Deye76

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #6 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 05:08:05 PM. »
"Also would it be wise to change the oil after performing the decarbon procedure"

I do.  :up:
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Offline rbabos

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #7 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 05:27:56 PM. »
I monitor the head temp with TTS to know what the temp is but I guess the fan will help out. As for the oil, plan the decarb at an oil change interval or if the oil is new drive it for an hour with the oil over 180 and any moisture will vapourize off. No worse than those cold weather short trips. :wink:
Ron
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Online Barrett

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #8 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 06:11:30 PM. »
What time frame was the 1/2 qt delivered? I doubt I have too much carbon but I do believe in this method and I have an oil change coming up.

Offline harleyjt

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #9 on: Monday, August 15, 2011. 06:40:26 PM. »
What time frame was the 1/2 qt delivered? I doubt I have too much carbon but I do believe in this method and I have an oil change coming up.

Unless you are experiencing a specific problem, I wouldn't do it.  Its good if you've built up enough carbon to cause spark rattle.  Most of us have enough highway time to keep them reasonably clean.  If there is a lot of carbon build up, I think I'd be trying to figure out what the problem is.  jmo.
jt
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Offline Ridetard

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 05:53:21 AM. »
I also do as Ron said.  :up: I then do the same with Sea Foam. I spray it hard at the end and let the Sea foam choke it down, let it sit 10-15 minutes then go ride it kinda hard to clean it out. After both treatments carbon is cleaned out real good.
Dan


 :up: +1What BlackmanC Said!   Furthmore, I have found that after a Seafoam treatment, my plugs look brand new.   That stuff is great!   

Offline 02roadcling

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 05:57:58 AM. »
Be careful about how fast you do it. I have used this method myself. I was talking to Steve at GMR and he told me he has seen a few guys dislodge big chunks way too fast and he believes its possible to score a cylinder wall. He mentioned he isn't very fond of that method.

cling
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Offline War Horse

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 06:06:38 AM. »
Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, 2oz per 5 gals gas.....  :up:
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Offline KingofCubes

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 06:29:13 AM. »
Can someone tell me if there is a company out there that makes a complete A/C setup that vents the breathers to the atmosphere?

The R&R Cycle Overflow is a great one.

Offline rbabos

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 08:12:57 AM. »
Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, 2oz per 5 gals gas.....  :up:
I've used MMO in my aircraft as many small Continental pilots do to prevent valve sticking . One of the snake oils that actually work. Military used this stuff in 45 gallon drums on Radial engines. Best used as a preventative rather than heavy carbon removal, but will work over time. Some other side benifits to it as well like upper cyl lube , with no apparent harm to the O2 sensors.
Ron
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Offline War Horse

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 08:30:24 AM. »
Yep been using it since the mid 70s on all my H-D's, never more than a fine black powder on pistons or heads.

Point I was trying make , slow removal of carbon, no big chunks to make life misserable.....  :wink:
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Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 08:34:47 AM. »
I don't let the carbon build up in the first place..  :wink:  You know, use the
Quote
whole
RPM range.. I do have to de-carbon an Onan NHD genset but then it only runs at 1800 RPM.. :embarrassed:

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Offline rbabos

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 08:41:48 AM. »
What time frame was the 1/2 qt delivered? I doubt I have too much carbon but I do believe in this method and I have an oil change coming up.

Unless you are experiencing a specific problem, I wouldn't do it.  Its good if you've built up enough carbon to cause spark rattle.  Most of us have enough highway time to keep them reasonably clean.  If there is a lot of carbon build up, I think I'd be trying to figure out what the problem is.  jmo.
jt
One such example is running the SE Heavy Breather with the internal venting. Talk about carbon buildup, holy shit batman. Harder you drive it the more carbon the engine makes. Highly recommend external venting these pricks.
Ron
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Offline War Horse

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 12:58:39 PM. »
I don't let the carbon build up in the first place..  :wink:  You know, use the
Quote
whole
RPM range.. I do have to de-carbon an Onan NHD genset but then it only runs at 1800 RPM.. :embarrassed:

Max

Well lets see my 56 pan got the snot run outta it for 14 years, only time that motor ran "normal" was with a police escort, and every top end in the 1st few years had at least .020-.030 carbon build up, in the years I had my motor machine shop I witnessed literally 1000s of top ends (heads & cylinders) with huge amounts of carbon build up. That includes Knuckles, Pans, Shovels and EVO's.

Riding it hard guarantees nothing except a prematurely worn engine, MMO has proven itself as a reliable deterrent. Now maybe twinkies are a different story, I don't know since I sold my machine business as they came out.

I'm running a Big Sucker, internal vent, so not taking chances, whats the big deal to add some MMO every couple tank fulls, works for me without beat the crap out of my bike..........  :wink:
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Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 01:17:52 PM. »
I run ET Krankvents without umbrella valves in the heads:

http://www.et-performance.com/kv.html#EVO

If you scroll up to the top of the page pointed to by the above link you will find the ones I use at the top of the page.
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Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday, August 16, 2011. 03:40:26 PM. »
Quote
Well lets see my 56 pan got the snot run outta it for 14 years, only time that motor ran "normal" was with a police escort, and every top end in the 1st few years had at least .020-.030 carbon build up, in the years I had my motor machine shop I witnessed literally 1000s of top ends (heads & cylinders) with huge amounts of carbon build up. That includes Knuckles, Pans, Shovels and EVO's.

Sounds like technology close to to the Onan..  :wink:

Max
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Offline 2006FXDCI

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday, August 17, 2011. 05:49:17 AM. »
Can someone post some pics of how they routed the vent lines from the backing plate. I looked at the R&R cycle overflow unit and think I will be ordering one soon. Thanks
2006 Super glide 107" , 2005 electra glide 124"

Offline GARYD

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday, August 17, 2011. 06:37:04 AM. »
I've been using that stuff Harley sells for cleaning the upper engine. It has Duralt in it and suppost to keep the engine clean. I put it in about every 3rd or 4th  fillup. Does anyone know if this stuff really does any good?

I just found this post on another Harley forum:

I use the fuel additive from Harley. I work for both GM and Toyota and I know that they spend thousands of dollars in research for there products to work in there cars. So with that in mind I am sure Harley spends a lot of money in there fuel additive to go with there bikes. This is just good business they would not spend the money if it did not work. The main ingredient is Durant below is a article that I found about this product.

In today’s market place there are a lot of different products on the market that claim to help you get more mileage out of the gas that you put in your gas tank. These products include detergents and many other additives. In this article I am going to review an additive that has been on the market since 1985. The name of this product is DurAlt.
DurAlt came out on the market in 1985 as a commercial product. It was put into limited use mainly by large truck fleets and in marine harbors as an after-market bulk treatment fuel conditioner. Since 1985 it has been marketed in different ways, including some private labels. The two most prominent private labels are the Harley-Davidson Genuine Fuel Additive and Freedom Fuel Additive.
Whenever a new fuel additive or conditioner comes out on the market, its amazing how many of them have outlandish claims about what they can do for your gas mileage, but have very little in the way of backup data. This is one area where DurAlt shines. DurAlt has been tested and approved by many independent laboratories and companies including Ford Motor Company, Harley-Davidson, Columbia University, and Total Fina Elf.
Here are just a few of the benefits that have been tested and proven for gasoline engines:
• Increases fuel mileage 8-12% on average
• Reduces Octane Requirement by 3 to 4 numbers
• Reduces engine knock
• Inhibits the formation of combustion chamber deposits
• Protects against fuel system corrosion
• Increases lubricity, extending life of fuel pumps and top end of engine
• Protects injectors
• Reduces hydrocarbon emissions
• Improves fuel stability during storage
• Protects storage tanks from rusting
• Reduces engine maintenance costs

DurAlt has also been proven to work in diesel engines as well. Here are some of the proven benefits for diesel engines:
• Increases fuel mileage up to 8-12%
• Increases lubricity, extending life of injection pumps & top end of engine
• Protects injectors
• Increases cetane by 2.5 numbers
• Up to 20% decrease in emissions
• Improves fuel stability during storage
• Protects storage tanks from rusting
• Ideal to use for bulk treatment
• Up to 20% decrease in engine maintenance

For those of you that are worried about what effect using a product like DurAlt might have on the environment, DurAlt has also been reviewed by the EPA (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) and other environmental organizations. The EPA has said that DurAlt does not pose any greater health or environmental risk than unleaded gasoline. They have said that is it ‘substantially similar’ to unleaded gasoline, and so it is no more dangerous than the gas you already put in your tank.
From its proven benefits to the companies that have tested it, DurAlt is a product that is definitely worth your consideration if you are looking for a product that is proven to actually do what is says it will do: help your car run better!


I only use it for the cleaning feature - I didn't realize all the other benifits it gave. Sure sounds like a great product. Any opposite feelings on this? Thanks
« Last Edit: Wednesday, August 17, 2011. 06:43:20 AM. by GARYD »
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Offline hogpipes1

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday, August 17, 2011. 08:23:09 AM. »
GM yrs ago had a good top end carbon remove additive , wonder if its the same .? where do u get the freedom add.?

Offline hogpipes1

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Re: Removing carbon buildup in engine
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday, August 17, 2011. 08:36:45 AM. »
 iI Ck .google and there is a case on  e-bay (12) 12oz $139- . it use to be sold by amway $15- a bottle . i'll have to ck local auto parts stores or get it at h-d. sounds good and it works that's the main thing .