Author Topic: Inner Cam Bearings ?  (Read 1730 times)

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Offline HDDOC

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Inner Cam Bearings ?
« on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 07:12:38 AM. »
If a inner cam bearing were to start to let go, what would it sound like, I am familiar with the EVO bearing sound when they are ready to let go but have never heard a Twin Cam inner bearing sarting to let go. I have what sounds like a chain sound and a very ticky top end noise, had the cam cover off and the tensioners are good along with the camplate bearings. This noise is not the normal sewing machine noise.  Thanks Doc

Offline HDDOC

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 07:13:15 AM. »
Oh ya, 05 FLHTC.   Doc

Offline surf

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 08:07:10 AM. »
Was riding with a guy last year when his started going. Was makin a ting ting ting sound. My guess was the chain tensioners were shot and starting to rub metal on chain. We opened it up and the inner bearing was gone. The ting ting sound was the needles getting eaten up. That was an '05 too. Not that that should matter. Damn shame it ruined a good motor. You hear about checking the tensioners. And the bearing goes
« Last Edit: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 08:28:32 AM. by surf »

Offline Hoople

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 09:00:10 AM. »
Damn shame it ruined a good motor.

Beyond repair? Couldn't just install new bearings and a new set of cams?

Offline 02FYRFTR

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 10:13:45 AM. »
Even if the bearing has damaged the bore in the case, the case can be repaired and new full compliment B-148 bearings installed.  Had three cases repaired last year from bad bores caused by inner cam bearing failure.  Easy to check the inner bearings since cam plate must be removed to do a good check on inner tensioners.  AND !!! while you have the plate out replace the bearings even if you think they are good with full compliment !!

Offline smoserx1

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 11:56:52 AM. »
Quote
Beyond repair? Couldn't just install new bearings and a new set of cams?

Often the needles come out and get into the crankcase (and/or other places).

If you look at the stock bearings, they are caged bearings.  The needles that ride in the cage are not long enough to be cradled by the bearing cup, or shell.  This makes it real easy for the needles to become dislodged if the bearing fails, and spread the contamination.  The Torrington type B148/B168 bearing is a full compliment bearing.  No cage is used, and the needles are longer and are cradled by the bearing shell.  This means that even if one fails it has a much better chance of keeping the needles contained.  I don't understand why Harley does not use this type bearing as OEM, especially when there does not seem any cost difference between the two.

Offline surf

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 05:34:28 PM. »
Damn shame it ruined a good motor.

Beyond repair? Couldn't just install new bearings and a new set of cams?

I'd say you have a couple choices, keep in mind all the needles were gone elsewhere in the motor, the most we found were two 1/4" pieces in the camchest.
1) Do like you sugested and take your chances
2) tear the motor down, clean it out and re-build...or
3) Do what he did and sell the bike to someone who wanted to build/re-build a bagger to their liking and by a new bike.

I probobly would have chose #2, but that just me.

Offline staysick01

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, January 26, 2011. 07:28:57 PM. »
I have seen this problem numerous times on twin cams, of course 90 percent of them are from installing new cam (the more radical the worst) without replacing the inner cam bearings with full compliment bearings, or worst, not replacing the bearings at all.

The worst I have seen actually siezed the engine up. Tore up the pistons and bore of the cyliners, clogged up the oil pump, seized up a liflter by wedging a roller between the lifter and case and welding itself there.

Even in this instance, the only reason I replaced his cases also was because the outer bore for the bearing was so far gone gone, and egg shaped that we couldnt do anything with it. Just made it an expensive paper weight. Usually bores can be repaired and parts can be replaced, and case halves dont have to be replaced.

In all of them the same thing happens, fist is the tinging, like a small chain in the engine, or cam chest. Then, comes the suffering performance of the bike, then comes the infamous seized engine. And all this can take time to develop, or just moments.

I recomend splitting the cases, inspecting every inch of the engine, repairing and replacing as you go. remember your bike is no good broken down.
6six6

Offline HDDOC

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday, January 27, 2011. 03:56:16 AM. »
I really did not want to take the cam plate out as I was not sure of the noise. But I did and the bearings were fine and I replaced them with the torringtons, everything looked good in the cam chest, the lifters looked good also rollers were not marked up and bearings tight. Replaced lifters installed adjustable pushrods and now all is well, should have just done it complete the first time and not second guessed myself.  Thanks for the replys.  Doc  Inner cam bearings INA are still looking good but I am guessing it must have been them.

Offline smoserx1

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Re: Inner Cam Bearings ?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday, January 27, 2011. 04:10:40 AM. »
You'll sleep better with those Torringtons in.