Author Topic: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?  (Read 6437 times)

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Offline DblackmanC

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Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 03:41:58 PM. »
I've though about going from the 34 tooth to the kits with a 30 tooth & chain. My question is what problems will this cause? I mean if Harley is spending all this extra money to install on every bike they must feel the need is necessary. I know I'll get the performance but at what cost??
Dan
'06 Dyna, 95" Bagger.

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 04:14:49 PM. »
Higher shock load to the wheels that already have a tendency to slip. It is similar to using a clutch disc without any cushioning springs in a car. Direct coupling

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 04:22:00 PM. »
Well the Revera guy is wrong. Guy told me it was to help with starting..  The main reason for the compensator is to dampen vibrations in the drive train..  Not sure if scissored wheels fall into that category but heck, they are part of the drive train.. Try driving a bike with high compression motor that don't have one.. You'll understand what I mean.. Max
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Offline DblackmanC

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 04:24:41 PM. »
Sooo...what is the weak link that will take most of the shock? What items may prematurely fail because of this change? What is H-D trying to protect?
Dan

ps My bike is '06 Dyna, 88 HP & 100 TQ
'06 Dyna, 95" Bagger.

Offline Sonny S.

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 04:31:45 PM. »
Well the Revera guy is wrong. Guy told me it was to help with starting..  The main reason for the compensator is to dampen vibrations in the drive train..  Not sure if scissored wheels fall into that category but heck, they are part of the drive train.. Try driving a bike with high compression motor that don't have one.. You'll understand what I mean.. Max


 :up:

IMHO not a good idea for a dailey rider

Offline DblackmanC

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 04:47:23 PM. »
Thanks guys....You confirmed my thoughts. I talked myself out of it a while back but with all the new talk and pics, I got interested again. But..I ride a good bit (47,000 on my '06) so I think I'll stay with the compensator. How about other options, like the 31 or 30 tooth trans. sprocket? Any down side to that change?
Dan
'06 Dyna, 95" Bagger.

Offline Coyote

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 07:06:56 PM. »
I took the compensator out of my 07 SE Ultra for awhile. It was not nice to ride. Added the IDS and everything was fine again. Now I'm back to stock (compensating) and no IDS.

The bike actually started nicer without the compensator. Stock, I need to hold the starter button a second past when the bike fires or it sometimes makes a lot of racket and does not start. Kinda like a bounce back effect. Can't say which is best.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline Rokinrider

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 08:15:43 PM. »
Ruck chuck, Ruck chuck, Ruck chuck, I like my comp sprocket it's there for a reason,JMHO. :rtfb:
Mclintock! swell party were the wiskey

Offline REED

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, June 17, 2009. 09:26:54 PM. »
ANYONE WITH 06 DYNA  and perhaps with some of the later twin cams please read and check this out:
Harley has a problem with the rotor to compensator hub securement on these bikes and they are not willing to inform anyone about it.  My 06 Dyna has had extensive work done on the engine by myself and I have had a failure of the 8 bolts that secure the rotor to the compensator.  I was out for a ride with a group the other dayand thought I heard some strange noises coming from the primary, so I shut down the engine and coasted to a stop.  Long and short of it was I didn't ride very far and after trucking my ride home I put it on the hoist and pulled the primary cover, all appeared OK except for some foam and junk in the bottom of the cover.  I pulled the compensator pulley and found the cause of the problem.  The 8 small bolts that secure the rotor to the compensator hub had backed off and worked their way out and as they were doing so they rolled the engine flange that holds the engine seal over and on top of the stator,  also one of the bolts had gotten caught in such a way as to push it into the seal area and actually crack a portion of the engine housing.  I had to grind the riveted portion off and use large prybars to dislodge the stator from the engine housing.  The only proper way to fix the problem is to disassemble the engine and send the left case away to have the timkin conversion redone.  Due to our limited riding period here I have done a temp repair involving some JBWELD on the housing and a new seal set in place with urethane to get me through the season until I have time to repair it properly next winter.  Since I have had this problem I have found that this is very common on these bikes and Harley is simply not owning up to it.  There is a new screaming eagle compensator out that will stop this from ever happening again but the cost of the new compensator and 07 style rotor (40Amp) come to over $500.00 here in Canada although the real cost of this repair if one had to pay for the parts and r+r of the engine including redoing the timkin conversion, gaskets and rings would be well over $2500.00

My real concern is that mine is not or will not be the only bike to destroy the left case like this and I can only imagine that most dealers will repair in a like manner as to what I have and the customer will be unaware  of the real extent of the damages on his bike so my advise to anyone having compensator problems is don't let the dealer put the engine back together till you at least inspect the damage and if like I describe mine demand a new set of cases.  REED

If  would have had even the slightest idea that this would have been a problem area I would have replaced these 8 bolts with better grade fasteners set with red locktight and safety wired as well.
There was no evidence of any locktight on these bolts and I doubt if they were ever torqued properly.
REED 

Offline DblackmanC

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 06:00:15 AM. »
Thanks Reed...I got your e-mail and I'll keep an eye on this problem. How many miles on your bike when this happened? My service manual does not show a very good break down of this. Maybe someone could post a Parts book picture?? So are you saying the compensator hub is bolted to the Rotor by 8 small bolts and the two are separating? Would like more details and Pictures if possible. Thanks,
Dan

ps...I'll look up SE Compensator. How is it better?
'06 Dyna, 95" Bagger.

Offline SCRACAR29

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 08:44:01 AM. »
P/N 40356-07 is a direct replacement rotor and spring assembly that is welded together. No bolts to break, $148.00.

Offline DblackmanC

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 10:33:02 AM. »
Thanks  :up:  :up:
'06 Dyna, 95" Bagger.

Offline vanwill

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 10:50:29 AM. »
What is better about the SE Compensator Nut? 

And Coyote, I can understand substituting the IDS to make smoother running without a compensator nut, but why did you remove it when you went back to the comp nut setup?  Did you notice any difference in transmission gear noise with the IDS?

Offline Coyote

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 05:06:56 PM. »
What is better about the SE Compensator Nut? 

And Coyote, I can understand substituting the IDS to make smoother running without a compensator nut, but why did you remove it when you went back to the comp nut setup?  Did you notice any difference in transmission gear noise with the IDS?

I guess I'm one of the few that never had any gear noise. No 5th gear whine, no rattling... etc. My tranny has always been quiet.

During one of my many motor rebuilds, the dealership sold me on some "upgrades". The 30T front sprocket was billed as helping the low end power. After my 3rd dealer rebuild, I gave up and took the bike to an indy. I added the IDS because, without the compensator, the bike felt like crap running below 3k rpms. It felt like I was lugging the motor the torque impluses were so strong.

When my indy did the top end, he pretty much insisted on putting the compensator back end. He felt it was too hard on the drive trane to not have it.

Could not tell any difference when he put the compensator back in but a month or so later, I was changing the rear tire and noticed the bearing in the IDS was a little damaged (it fell out in pieces on the floor). The bearing well was wallowed out as well so I decided to put the stock sprocket back on.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline klammer76

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 07:13:53 PM. »
I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I have a question:

Why did the Motor Co discontinue the using the compensator? Was 07 the year that they decided to stop using it & then go with the IDS as a fix after the fact?

Thanks,
Klammer

Offline FSG

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #15 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 07:27:20 PM. »
Quote
Why did the Motor Co discontinue the using the compensator?


Discontinue ? They haven't just changed to a newer design, the Dynas in '06 and the rest in '07.

Check the Model Year Technical Forums

Offline klammer76

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #16 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 07:46:24 PM. »

Discontinue ? They haven't just changed to a newer design, the Dynas in '06 and the rest in '07.

Check the Model Year Technical Forums
[/quote]

Thanks, I didn't realize it was welded to the rotor cap. I recently saw a picture of a newer model & it looked like it was eliminated. What was the purpose of the IDS, does the newer compensator not work as well as the older style?

Offline Coyote

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 09:16:36 PM. »
I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I have a question:

Why did the Motor Co discontinue the using the compensator? Was 07 the year that they decided to stop using it & then go with the IDS as a fix after the fact?

Thanks,
Klammer

My 07 had it and AFAIK, all current bikes do as well.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline barny7655

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #18 on: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 10:46:01 PM. »
Hi all, Max my 57 triumpy 650 twin had the same compensator set up ,but with single row chain,so for electric starting i think not for  the compensator , yes may help on first rev but its purely there for the rev heads that like to drop the clutch lol,it takes the load off the primary chain,giving it more time to recover letting the rider take off more gently,like the clutch springs on the cars clutch plate,  same method,saves the transmission,and drive train , good post , cheers Barny
« Last Edit: Thursday, June 18, 2009. 11:22:35 PM. by barny7655 »
riding since 62, BSA bantum the first bike

Offline hdpegscraper

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #19 on: Friday, June 19, 2009. 03:43:49 AM. »
   Reed, friend of mine had that similar experience- went to do a rolling burn out, and heard a clunk uty clunk and the check engine light came on. Them lil screws came loose and ate his stator, case was ok though. Converted to the welded style, and all is good again.
   I tried running compensatorless on a hot rod 95in '01, compensator asm. weighs around 7-9lbs if I recall, maybe more, but just a gear and nut was barley 2lbs. Figured Id shave off some rotating weight. Figured Sporties are like that so why not? Well, I must jack the throttle too hard, power wheelies and such, or it could be unrelated. But, I found that the rivets that hold the primary chain gear onto the clutch shell had started to come loose and distort in the aluminum. Needles to say, I needed a new clutch shell, and went back to a compensator.

Offline vanwill

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #20 on: Friday, June 19, 2009. 07:18:32 AM. »
What is better about the SE compensator nut?

Offline rickf1801

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #21 on: Friday, June 19, 2009. 12:08:53 PM. »
What I found that, what was better was, it was alot beefier to start with. It didn't clunk when you put it in gear or changed gears and it was easier to find neutral. Over all it was alot smoother. I changed the origional one because it was knocking. We thought at first it was the rear cylinder piston slapping. Thank God it wasn't.    
« Last Edit: Friday, June 19, 2009. 12:11:42 PM. by rickf1801 »
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Offline DblackmanC

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #22 on: Friday, June 19, 2009. 07:18:57 PM. »
Van...it is the compensator assy. itself not the nut. and it is welded to the rotor not bolted. I think all new ones have been improved to the welded style??
Dan
'06 Dyna, 95" Bagger.

Offline REED

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #23 on: Friday, June 19, 2009. 10:34:46 PM. »
The new screaming eagle compensator assembly is prob 3 to 4 times stronger than the original compensator on the 06 and if the 07 and newer is the same as 06 only welded they will probably survive with most stock to moderately built engines.  If replacing the comp assembly on an 06 remember that even though the screaming eagle manual says it works on 06 Dyna's it doesn't the stator on an 06 is too far away from the rotor to charge the batteries properly, the best thing to use is the 07 and newer 40 amp stator and be sure to check the clearance for the rotor as the newer stator is larger both in depth and in circumference, I have to shim the rotor out abt 100 thou so that the inside rear of the rotor does not touch the stator and remember to check pulley alignment.   REED

Offline SkinHD1

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Re: Compensator Sprocket Purpose?
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday, June 24, 2009. 09:51:50 AM. »
rickf1801 what do you mean it was knocking.  I may be having a similar problem.

SkinHD1