Author Topic: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?  (Read 1561 times)

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Offline TA63

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Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« on: Sunday, July 28, 2013. 10:16:00 PM. »
Any of you softtail riders out there pulled the balancers?  How about lightening them?  How bad did the vibes get and did you pick up significant power?  Also, I am running a fully welded and balanced darkhorse lower end.  Would it need to be rebalanced?
« Last Edit: Sunday, July 28, 2013. 10:36:32 PM. by TA63 »

Offline RevFastEddy

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #1 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 08:20:21 AM. »

Any of you softtail riders out there pulled the balancers?  No because those that have were not been pleased with driveability.. Search the archives.
 How about lightening them?  Short Block Charlie started lightening them years ago on the earlier ones. New ones are lighter.  He cut about .100" off the OD of the early balancer. Seemed to move the vibration spot higher.
How bad did the vibes get and did you pick up significant power?   Like an old EVO with solid mounts but worse.. more power? HD said a long time ago that it costs about 2hp to run balancers.
 Also, I am running a fully welded and balanced darkhorse lower end.  Would it need to be rebalanced?  No

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Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #2 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 10:16:08 AM. »
No reason to pull balancers IMO.  There is only so fast you can go on a street bike.  My 06 B has the balancers and have never had issues thus far at close to 150HP.  If you beat on it that bad then get a set of R&R mounts and put an A motor in your softail.
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Offline Scooterfish

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #3 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 12:06:04 PM. »
I believe it was  Scott over at Hillside that said they get some of the best numbers from B motors.
« Last Edit: Monday, July 29, 2013. 12:38:51 PM. by Scooterfish »
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Offline rbabos

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #4 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 01:09:49 PM. »
I believe it was  Scott over at Hillside that said they get some of the best numbers from B motors.
I think all things being equal the A will spank it slightly. All the chains and shoes as well as mass of the weights during spool up in there have to add up to a bit more drag in the system. Not earth shattering, but some.
Ron
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Offline prodrag1320

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #5 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 01:45:35 PM. »
we`ve got rid of the balancers in the past,motor will spool up a lot better & showed more HP,rebalancing is required
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Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #6 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 02:15:33 PM. »
Check out this thread.
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,57528.msg609674.html#msg609674

If you are looking for power there are a lot of better ways to get it.

Offline gordonr

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #7 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 05:24:13 PM. »
we`ve got rid of the balancers in the past,motor will spool up a lot better & showed more HP,rebalancing is required
We have done the same and ran factors between 60 and 64%. Vibration is minimal. I believe there is also something to having a larger crank chest volume.
"If was easy everyone would do it"

Offline TA63

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #8 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 05:28:08 PM. »
Thanks guys.  Made a fair deal with a member here for an absolutely beautiful 99 road king set up with a 117 and baker trans.  Ill Never get rid of my fat boy, but it may become more of a barhopper and possibly see the strip once in a while. Sounds like the small power increase may not be worth it.
« Last Edit: Monday, July 29, 2013. 05:34:44 PM. by TA63 »

Offline Soft 02

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #9 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 05:36:30 PM. »
Ive pulled them but I put them back in.
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Offline POORBOY

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #10 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 09:39:27 PM. »
I pulled one on a 117, used R&R crank, I was surprised how smooth it is.
Poorboy   Moonshine  TN

Offline 02FYRFTR

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 05:21:59 AM. »
Have one at 124' with Darkhorse prepped flywheels with "H" beam rods, balanced to the 4.250" pistons, third year running, 140/145.  Can stand a nickel on end at idle.

Offline moscooter

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 12:18:13 PM. »
 :scratch:
The only advantage that I'm aware of from past commentary on the "B" motor is overall "revs".  The "A" motor can successfully handle revs into the 6300-6400 rpm range as I understand it, while it has been recommended to NOT rev a "B" motor beyond about the 5800 rpm range due to the balancer parts holding up...........or not. :oops:

Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 01:43:53 PM. »
When I pulled my balancers, the wheel set shifted while on the initial dyno tuning / break in.  When I first rode it I couldn't believe how much it vibrated.  I damaged my air dam and broke my left mirror stem from the vibrations.  I can't say that it was from just the balancers but I know of another guy who have had his oil tank crack as a result of the increased vibrations along with misc. oil leaks.  I spoke with John at dark horse and he told me that he had customers who regularly spooled up their "B" engines to 7k without any problems.  So I just had Otto put in the new style balancers when we put the S&S wheel set in.  My engine does not live at 7k but it visits.  So far I probably have about 7-9k on the engine and it runs fine.
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Offline moscooter

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 04:51:01 PM. »
 :potstir:

http://www.mikuni.com/pg_ignition.html


NOTE: "B" motor rpm limit

 The Softail "B" (balanced) engines must not exceed 6200 rpm ---- ever! The four ball bearings that support the crankshaft counterbalance weights become overloaded at 6200 and will eventually fail if run at higher rpm. If you own a "B" motor, do not fit one of the 7000 rpm Harley ignitions, or, for that matter, anyone's ignition that allows the engine to turn past 6200. You could remove the balance shafts which would raise the safe rpm to over 7000 rpm, but --- it would then shake just like the Evo did.  :oops:

 :nix: Guess I underestimated the limit,  but sounds like your asking for big problems if you exceed 6200-6300 rpms with a "B" motor...... :pop:
« Last Edit: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 04:55:17 PM. by moscooter »

Offline Rokinrider

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 06:15:50 PM. »
My brand new 103B motor shakes like a dog crapping razor blades around 4200 rpms? 1600 miles on it, runs real good but it hits that speed and release the Kraken... I'm gonna pound it and test the MOCO warranty maybe. I wonder if it's the crap comp or the balancers??? I don't drag race it but I ride it like I stole it :chop: I loves my new slim!!!
Mclintock! swell party were the wiskey

Offline rbabos

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 06:34:02 PM. »
:potstir:

http://www.mikuni.com/pg_ignition.html


NOTE: "B" motor rpm limit

 The Softail "B" (balanced) engines must not exceed 6200 rpm ---- ever! The four ball bearings that support the crankshaft counterbalance weights become overloaded at 6200 and will eventually fail if run at higher rpm. If you own a "B" motor, do not fit one of the 7000 rpm Harley ignitions, or, for that matter, anyone's ignition that allows the engine to turn past 6200. You could remove the balance shafts which would raise the safe rpm to over 7000 rpm, but --- it would then shake just like the Evo did.  :oops:

 :nix: Guess I underestimated the limit,  but sounds like your asking for big problems if you exceed 6200-6300 rpms with a "B" motor...... :pop:

Slightly old data. Late model cb engines have 2 ball and 2 roller bearings. The balancers are also lighter. 6200 is the old limit carried over.
Ron
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Offline Soft 02

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 08:10:32 PM. »
:potstir:

http://www.mikuni.com/pg_ignition.html


NOTE: "B" motor rpm limit

 The Softail "B" (balanced) engines must not exceed 6200 rpm ---- ever! The four ball bearings that support the crankshaft counterbalance weights become overloaded at 6200 and will eventually fail if run at higher rpm. If you own a "B" motor, do not fit one of the 7000 rpm Harley ignitions, or, for that matter, anyone's ignition that allows the engine to turn past 6200. You could remove the balance shafts which would raise the safe rpm to over 7000 rpm, but --- it would then shake just like the Evo did.  :oops:

 :nix: Guess I underestimated the limit,  but sounds like your asking for big problems if you exceed 6200-6300 rpms with a "B" motor...... :pop:

Slightly old data. Late model cb engines have 2 ball and 2 roller bearings. The balancers are also lighter. 6200 is the old limit carried over.
Ron


Yep.

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66 Triumph Tiger TR6

Offline prodrag1320

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013. 04:28:03 AM. »
My brand new 103B motor shakes like a dog crapping razor blades around 4200 rpms? 1600 miles on it, runs real good but it hits that speed and release the Kraken... I'm gonna pound it and test the MOCO warranty maybe. I wonder if it's the crap comp or the balancers??? I don't drag race it but I ride it like I stole it :chop: I loves my new slim!!!

ive seen the sprocket on the pinion shaft move more than once,check that
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Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013. 06:04:05 AM. »
I had my drive gear tacked on the first couple of builds.  Pros and cons both ways I guess.  My current build uses a S&S wheel set and John at Darkhorse said those gears are pressed on so tight that he has a hard time getting them off and that it wasn't necessary to weld them, so my current build is just the press fit.
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Offline RevFastEddy

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Re: Anyone pulled the balancers on a B motor?
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013. 07:15:23 AM. »
I had my drive gear tacked on the first couple of builds.  Pros and cons both ways I guess.  My current build uses a S&S wheel set and John at Darkhorse said those gears are pressed on so tight that he has a hard time getting them off and that it wasn't necessary to weld them, so my current build is just the press fit.


Same here on an S&S wheel set. with stock pld balancers but roller instead of ball bearings in front.
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