Author Topic: SE adjustable pushrods!!!  (Read 9930 times)

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Offline lonegoosehonking

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SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 06:42:18 PM. »
 So I have been reading about the adjustable pushrods. They they are 32 threads per inch. I read that the twin cam lifter has about .200" of travel. The HD instructions say to adjust the pushrod from zero lash into the lifter 2.5 turns. Most threads I have read say that will put the lifter at .100 compressed. So hear is my question? At 32 threads per inch that gives one turn on the pushrod at .03125 and multiply that by 2.5 and you are at .078" not .100". Along with that I have read on several forums that some people in the industry recommend putting the lifter .140-.150 " compressed. I read all the Black hills ken thread and its pretty interesting. Anyone want to weigh in on the .078" number as well as why a couple of the top guys recommend .140-.150" into the lifter which should be 4.48 turns -4.8 turns ?

 I have tried the 2.5/1.5,1 turn . The one turn gives me some lifter noise at start up should the bike sit for a week or so. I have two bikes so sometimes one gets more action. 

Offline vindacator

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 07:07:19 PM. »
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Offline smoserx1

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 07:10:30 PM. »
That 0.100" preload specification has some wiggle room.

Offline FSG

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 08:01:57 PM. »
Divide the TPI (32) by 10 to get the number of turns yo need for 100 thou.

32/10 = 3.2 , so adjust them 3.5 turns and your in business  :up:

Offline greycanuck

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 08:27:24 PM. »
At 21/2 turns that would equal .100 lash if the threads were 24tpi. not all adjustable push rods use the same tpi...so you have to be sure to verify if they are indeed 32tpi or 24 tpi.

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 08:34:00 PM. »
What makes you think the SE pushrods are 32tpi?

Offline Twolanerider

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 08:39:57 PM. »
What makes you think the SE pushrods are 32tpi?

Aren't they?  I thought they were also.  Had this for the various more common pushrods over the years:

Jims Pro-Lite = 24 threads per inch (TPI)
Slim Jims = 32
Andrews = 28 or 32
Crane “New” Time Savers = 28
Crane “Old” Time Savers = 24 or 32
"old" HD = 32
S&S = 32
"old" Screamin Eagle = 32
new tapered Screamin Eagle 18404-08  = 24
Rivera Taper Lite = 40
Rev Tech = 36
Zippers Pro Taper = 32

« Last Edit: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 06:39:11 PM. by Twolanerider »

Offline TXCHOP

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 08:50:04 PM. »
i could be wrong, but i think the old S/e's are 32 tpi and the new tapered ones are 24 tpi....i could be wrong though.

Offline Twolanerider

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 08:58:09 PM. »
i could be wrong, but i think the old S/e's are 32 tpi and the new tapered ones are 24 tpi....i could be wrong though.

I need to edit that actually.  The "SE" reference there is old enough that it is now the "old" SE pushrods. I don't know what the thread count on the new tapered pushrods is.  Will edit that prior post accordingly.  Thanks for the reminder.  Anyone know for sure on the new SE tapereds?

Offline nc-renegade

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 10:07:20 PM. »
The old SE "quick install adjustables are 24 TPI.  I understand the new taper ones are 32 TPI.  My Feulings are 32 TPI, which I adjust 4 turns, puts it at .125".
107ci, 11:1,T-Man Stage 3 Heads, T-Man TR-662 cam, HPI 51mm TB, Feuling plate/SP

Offline FSG

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, February 04, 2009. 10:17:28 PM. »
i could be wrong, but i think the old S/e's are 32 tpi and the new tapered ones are 24 tpi....i could be wrong though.

I need to edit that actually.  The "SE" reference there is old enough that it is now the "old" SE pushrods. I don't know what the thread count on the new tapered pushrods is.  Will edit that prior post accordingly.  Thanks for the reminder.  Anyone know for sure on the new SE tapereds?

it's easy to see, 32 TPI is finer than 24 TPI, just count the threads in 1/2" and multiply by 2, what is the answer ?

Offline lonegoosehonking

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 02:57:39 AM. »
 Mine are the regular screaming eagle pushrods not the new tapered? Pretty much everything I have read is saying they are 32tpi. I am  about to readjust mine and I have a thread pitch gauge so I am going to make certain what they are but all I read is that they are 32 tpi. I agree on the 3.5 turns calculation. Thats what I got also. Anyone on the .140-.150 preload?

Offline 96FLSTF

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #12 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 03:54:20 AM. »
with a SE Adjustable Pushrod in my hand (I just bought for my Hydra Cam Plate upgrade) I counted 12 turns to make 1/2" = 24 threads per 1"

Gene
05 95" FLHRSI
96 FLSTF ("Street Stalker")

Offline lonegoosehonking

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #13 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 04:06:40 AM. »
Is that the tapered or old style se pushrod?

Offline PanHeadRed

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #14 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 04:18:58 AM. »
>why a couple of the top guys recommend .140-.150" ?<

I am not claiming to be a top guy, but I will answer the question. Milling the gasket surface in an attempt to reduce combustion chamber size, using thinner gaskets, sinking the valves deeper, etc... changes, (increases) the angle between the rocker and lifter, these changes how ever slight add stress to the valve train and do have an effect, driving the contact point of the lifter deeper into the hole can correct some of these changes, and the change can be noticed. Just like any of this stuff, YMMV.

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #15 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 04:42:31 AM. »
AFAIK the old SE Aluminum pushrods and the new tapered are both 24tpi

Offline DavePard

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #16 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 06:14:28 AM. »
 moved
« Last Edit: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 09:11:01 AM. by DavePard »

Offline Jeffd

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #17 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 07:10:29 AM. »
I just went out and counted threads on a set of 17997-99a's and they are as said 24 tpi.

Offline ederdelyi

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #18 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 07:44:42 AM. »
>>why a couple of the top guys recommend .140-.150<<

What PHR said, plus:

Additional preload can sometimes help to reduce valve train noise as well as help with hot starts. The additional preload makes the lifter look more like a limited travel lifter and thus will alter the valve timing less due to bleed down. There is a potential downside to both too much and too little preload ... but I've found that most just don't want to hear it so ... me lips be sealed :>) In a perfect world, the plunger should be set to the mid travel point as this will allow the lifter to maintain zero lash over the largest possible range of operation ... BWTFDIK! :>)

Offline Jeffd

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #19 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 07:53:53 AM. »
Ed, I want to hear it and I know others do too.  Let's hear the upsides and downsides to both senerios.  thanks jeff

Offline PanHeadRed

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #20 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 08:29:35 AM. »
>Additional preload can sometimes help to reduce valve train noise<

Because of my experiences, out of habit I go a minimum of 3 full turns right from the start, and extend the rod if needed later.

 I had to !ROFL! when I read your post. I did not mention the pre-load/noise thing for.........well......just because.

BUT! I still wonder what were the results of the thread where they were preaching .02" - .05" max pre-load.

Does any body still do that or was that just another one of those TTOTM?

Offline ederdelyi

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #21 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 08:39:52 AM. »
In a nutshell:

Too much preload ... If valve float should occur, the lifter can pump up and possible valve to piston contact is possible. Less than optimum pushrod to lifter angle is also a consideration.

Too little preload: Potential for the lifter to not be able to maintain zero lash. This can have more effects than just valve train noise. In addition to a less than optimum pushrod to lifter angle it is also possible for the lifter plunger retainer to fail as it is not designed to retain the plunger under operating loads.

I have seen both of the above occur, it usually ain't pretty when it happens. There's more, but the above are the major concerns.

Offline Sc00ter

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #22 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 08:43:18 AM. »
Ed, I want to hear it and I know others do too.  Let's hear the upsides and downsides to both senerios.  thanks jeff

The new screamin eagle tapered pushrods are 24 tpi.  I used them with S&S limited travel lifters (.100 total plunger travel).  I probably set the pushrod length ass-backwards as compared to some, but I extend the pushrods until the pushrod plunger is completely depressed (the lifter plunger has traveled .100), then I back up (shorten) the pushrod length just a tad over 1 full turn (shorten the pushrod just over .0416) - so I am approx. in the middle of the plunger travel.  (for the unfamiliar, a "tad" is a technical term...)    :up:

Offline Twolanerider

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #23 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 08:48:35 AM. »

The new screamin eagle tapered pushrods are 24 tpi.  

(for the unfamiliar, a "tad" is a technical term...)    :up:


Thanks for the confirmation Scott.  Edited that old product list accordingly.  Also a bit more confirmation if you can.  I can never keep it straight.  Which is greater?  A tad or a bit?

Offline ederdelyi

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Re: SE adjustable pushrods!!!
« Reply #24 on: Thursday, February 05, 2009. 08:54:20 AM. »
>>Does any body still do that or was that just another one of those TTOTM?<<

Dunno, if they are they ain't sayin'. Same stuff goes on with the GM, Ford, etc. performance forums. Ford itself was promoting the light preload on 5 liter Mustangs for awhile, then backed off when some managed to separate the plungers from the lifter bodies at 7000 RPM ... nasty! We HD'rs have some additional considerations ... aluminum and air cooled strike a chord with anyone?