Author Topic: thundermax problem  (Read 2615 times)

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Offline flhtcu2007

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thundermax problem
« on: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 01:30:29 PM. »
I'm out with my wife today and the bike is going nuts. I have an 07 ultra with a tmax the security light is staying on, the neutral light is staying on. It's hot today, any ideas? On the side of the road as i type this.

Offline Barrett

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 01:45:07 PM. »
Let it cool down.. I've had to reset mine before.. Cycle the ignition switch three times on/off 30 seconds each time with kill switch in run position.
« Last Edit: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 01:54:24 PM. by Barrett »

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 03:44:02 PM. »
You'll like this, my bike has the exact symptoms when I was traveling at altitude in Colorado on my 07 EGC with a Tmax.. Started with the neutral light  and then the security.. If at soon as you see it, stop, shut the motor off and restart the bike, the problem will clear and function for a short while.. Depending on the conditions it may come back.. The problem lies somewhere the the system buss (CAN?) or a sensor input to the Tmax.. Dan Fitzmaurice relayed this info to mayor and I, while at the Cincinnati show. -> The most common issue found was a poor connection at the Tmax.. It wise to clean the contact with denatured alcohol and reassemble.

BTW, The sequences was pretty funny.. First time at altitude, Neutral light. Second tin, neutral and security. Third, First 2 plus Speedo and tach died.. After that the demon was gone.. Been about 2000 miles..

Max


 
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Offline Eleft36

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #3 on: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 06:51:46 PM. »
Let it cool down.. I've had to reset mine before.. Cycle the ignition switch three times on/off 30 seconds each time with kill switch in run position.


This may be your answer.

http://ssdl1.cachefly.net/ThunderMaxManuals/ThunderMax/CableThrottleConductivity_11092011.pdf#view=fit

Al
103" SE BB Andrews 26H's 2010 110" mufflers
Ride every chance I get, above 36*f

Offline flhtcu2007

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #4 on: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 11:21:22 PM. »
Thanks guys, just got back and was reading the replies. Max, I was so frustrated on the side of the road, I removed the saddlebag, and ECM cover, then disconnected the ECM harness. When I restarted the bike the neutral and security light were on, then went off after about 30 seconds. Never did come back on. It was hot as hell today.About 2 weeks ago I was riding and it backfired on me several times but figured it was raining hard on that ride and there was a 30 degree difference from one day to another so basically I chalked it up to a huge barometric swing in atmosphere pressure. I started using a battery tender about 6 months ago, so that's on my mind as well. Max, I was kinda relieved that you've seen this exact problem. Now that I'm home, I'm gonna clean the ECM connector, use some connector grease and get rid of the battery tender connector. No question that all that craziness from the dash had something to do with the ECM, just glad it appears to be a connection issue. I love my Tmax and it would break my heart to have to move away from it. Thanks a ton for the input, I really appreciate it, I know my wife does too as I am the biggest asshole when something is wrong with my scoot.

Offline flhtcu2007

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #5 on: Saturday, July 21, 2012. 11:48:49 PM. »
Btw max, my 6th gear indicator stayed on as well while all this was goin on. When I stopped, shut down and restarted the problem stayed the same. It wasn't until I reset the connector at the ECM that the problem went away. Just thought I'd throw that data out there in case you and mayor have anymore conversation with tmax engineering. Even with this small issue, still love the tmax. If it's an ECM connector issue(as it appears to be) same thing could have happened to a stock ECM for those following along.

Offline Eleft36

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, July 22, 2012. 06:17:54 AM. »
HD bulletin on this. TT418

Good check for all Bikes.

Al
103" SE BB Andrews 26H's 2010 110" mufflers
Ride every chance I get, above 36*f

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, July 22, 2012. 06:39:15 AM. »
HD bulletin on this. TT418

Good check for all Bikes.

Al

And that's really good information!

I know now why the '09 and up touring bikes have a stand off on the seat pans, that the '08's did not have.

Quote from the bulletin:

Current Root Cause Investigation
First verify that the throttle plate moves freely while the engine is not running. If it does not, the
TCA should be replaced.
Poor ECM connections seem to be the most likely cause. Be aware that issues with 2008 models
may be aggravated by seat pan-to-ECM connector contact.
A poor connection at pins 29 and 30 could cause an interruption in voltage to the throttle motor
and cause the code. Similarly the ECM uses voltage from pin 52 YEL/GN to supply power used
at pins 29 and 30 and could cause the same symptoms.

2009 Ultra Classic - Bone Stock 96"
2008 Street Glide - Bone Stock 117"

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, July 22, 2012. 07:18:35 AM. »
Btw max, my 6th gear indicator stayed on as well while all this was goin on. When I stopped, shut down and restarted the problem stayed the same. It wasn't until I reset the connector at the ECM that the problem went away. Just thought I'd throw that data out there in case you and mayor have anymore conversation with tmax engineering. Even with this small issue, still love the tmax. If it's an ECM connector issue(as it appears to be) same thing could have happened to a stock ECM for those following along.

I haven't seen the 6th gear problem. Sounds like something held in non volatile memory got corrupted.. You would think that the same conditions would appear in the stock ECM.. I suspect that some of the reason it may not is how the ECM interfaces to the motorcycle.. It's typically though an integrated circuit (IC). The one that the Thunderheart chose may be different from the one in the stock delphi ECM.. If the IC somehow manages to get hung up it may take a power cycle to reset it.. It's possible the processor code driving the IC is not paranoid enough to account for erratic inputs due to the poor connections.. It's also possible that HD uses some undocumented commands reset everything if the system bus gets messed up.. Just guessing here but I've seen all the issues on other systems..

Max
Aka Mousinator, Another Wasted Minute With Max,
No Collar to the Bone

Offline flhtcu2007

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, July 22, 2012. 08:39:26 AM. »
I'll bet your right. I guess when you think about it, Tmax is up front and honest about never wanting to lose battery power....ever. If it does you obviously have to go through the idle procedure. The newer tbw tmax's have a lot better mechanism. I'm willing to bet you are right about Harley clearing the cache, then again it's probably just got better code. Delphi has been doing this a long time. I work in IT so the part about an IC circuit being paranoid...... I love that reference. I'll definitely be using that line. Thanks! Really appreciate everyone's help!

Offline flhtcu2007

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #10 on: Thursday, July 25, 2013. 05:37:06 PM. »
Well dang, out today and this problem arose again. Just getting the security light and neautral light. I thought they had fixed this withthe last firmware update. Max, you still seeing this?

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, July 25, 2013. 07:13:26 PM. »
Well dang, out today and this problem arose again. Just getting the security light and neautral light. I thought they had fixed this withthe last firmware update. Max, you still seeing this?

There has been sometime since the original post.. I've talked to Dan F at Zippers a little about this at the last 2 V twin expos. First time it didn't sink in..   The issue is usually related to a poor connection on the serial bus. Dan mentioned a bulletin that they had out.. If you go to the technical documents section on Smartlink IV software there is one labeled "Improving Conductivity of Your Electrical System"... Look at that one.. I suspect that part of the problem is from the fact that the AFR module is attached to T max EFI through the serial buss that runs through the bike.. I suspect that they did this to allow adding an AFR meter to sample the same data as the TMax sees and provide a real time display of the AFR but am not sure.. Anyway the connection at the base of the ecm and the diagnostic plug needs checking.. I suspect that and a having the AFR sampling on the bus can cause a bus message to be misinterpreted, confusing the instruments.. 

For me the issue happens so infrequently that I usually ignore it.. I just cycle power and everything works fine.. I've had the problem once in the past 5000 miles..   

One thing to know is that the newer ECMs now have the AFR sampling incorporated and there is not longer any connection from the AFR section to the system bus..

Max
Aka Mousinator, Another Wasted Minute With Max,
No Collar to the Bone

Offline flhtcu2007

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #12 on: Monday, July 29, 2013. 08:01:58 PM. »
Thanks max,
Great info as usual, last year i cleaned out the connector and did wiring grease. Guess i'll try it again. Thanks for the very informative post.

Offline rbabos

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Re: thundermax problem
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, July 30, 2013. 06:28:55 AM. »
Back in 2008 I ran the Tmax. Early firmware and had no issues. Seems to me somewhere along the firmaware updates my speedo would die every so often. Simple key off and on and good for a week or months before I saw it again. I still have to wonder if it's firmware related in some form. I find it hard to believe all these bikes have connection issues.
Ron
I came over to the Dark Side. They have chocolate kisses.