Author Topic: Rocker shims again  (Read 2067 times)

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Offline flht1550

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Rocker shims again
« on: Wednesday, May 09, 2012. 03:05:24 PM. »
I'm sure this topic is getting old for mant but I'm still not real clear on the correct metid on shimming the rocker shafts. I'm not real sure of the best place to measure the spaceing between the rocker arms and the stand offs. When i measure from the pushrod pocket end I get .012 and when on rockerarm face end I'll get .017. This would tell me that my rockerarm stands are not square with the face of the rocker arms. Also when i read to install shimms on the non trust side of the rockerarms I'm not sure which end that is ? the push rod pocket end or rockerarm face end ?? Also is the trust side different from intake to exhaust. Sorry for what may seem like a dump question to some but would be a great help to me toward clearing this up in my mind. Also what would be the thinnest shim one would dare to install without fear of it breaking. thanks

Online rbabos

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, May 09, 2012. 03:28:58 PM. »
Thrust side can be seen with the angle of the pushrods. Intakes and exhaust are opposite. Shim goes on the pushrod end for exhaust and valve end for intakes.  There are also witness marks that point to each rockers thrust face where it marks the rocker box if it's disassembled now. The min I would go is .010 for shim.
Ron
I came over to the Dark Side. They have chocolate kisses.

Offline flht1550

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, May 09, 2012. 04:25:16 PM. »
So does that mean that the rockerarm is being pushed toward the spring side on the exhaust so there is not preasure on the shim

Online rbabos

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, May 09, 2012. 06:18:59 PM. »
So does that mean that the rockerarm is being pushed toward the spring side on the exhaust so there is not preasure on the shim
Correct. Running clearance will be at the pushrod end that has no thrust load on it. Intakes will be opposite.
Ron
I came over to the Dark Side. They have chocolate kisses.

Offline clawdog60

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, May 09, 2012. 07:05:15 PM. »
Any names of suppliers for these shims. Recommended material?

Offline moose

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, May 09, 2012. 08:29:00 PM. »
look in J P cycles for shovel head shims
Moose aka Glenn at the New Jersey Shore

Offline clawdog60

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #6 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 08:07:35 AM. »
Thanx :up:

Online rbabos

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #7 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 01:09:33 PM. »
Save the money and extra work. It won't gain anything. Here's why. If you notice the wear marks thrust is provided by the pushrod angle and will always remain against this surface. All the shims will do is reduce an unused clearance which never comes into play with the engine running.
If your rockers shift .012 during valve lift, I'd be junking the engine. :hyst:
Ron
I came over to the Dark Side. They have chocolate kisses.

Offline clawdog60

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #8 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 01:57:43 PM. »
Ron I recall you stating that on another thread. ? .012 clearance on the rocker ends and the motor is junk or just the head /valve-train? So the rockers are not moving side to side as the engine is running. Correct.

Offline TXCHOP

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #9 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 02:52:32 PM. »
Save the money and extra work. It won't gain anything. Here's why. If you notice the wear marks thrust is provided by the pushrod angle and will always remain against this surface. All the shims will do is reduce an unused clearance which never comes into play with the engine running.
If your rockers shift .012 during valve lift, I'd be junking the engine. :hyst:
Ron

You should see what vulcan rocker supports look like after 15k miles on 9b/f cams...... :wink:

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #10 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 03:29:22 PM. »
Save the money and extra work. It won't gain anything. Here's why. If you notice the wear marks thrust is provided by the pushrod angle and will always remain against this surface. All the shims will do is reduce an unused clearance which never comes into play with the engine running.
If your rockers shift .012 during valve lift, I'd be junking the engine. :hyst:
Ron

You should see what vulcan rocker supports look like after 15k miles on 9b/f cams...... :wink:
:wwp:

Max
Aka Mousinator, Another Wasted Minute With Max,
No Collar to the Bone

Online Eglider05

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 04:04:45 PM. »
Save the money and extra work. It won't gain anything. Here's why. If you notice the wear marks thrust is provided by the pushrod angle and will always remain against this surface. All the shims will do is reduce an unused clearance which never comes into play with the engine running.
If your rockers shift .012 during valve lift, I'd be junking the engine. :hyst:
Ron

Yep I agree, put the effort into something else. I tried to convince myself it helped but it didn't.

Rick

Online rbabos

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #12 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 04:25:48 PM. »
Ron I recall you stating that on another thread. ? .012 clearance on the rocker ends and the motor is junk or just the head /valve-train? So the rockers are not moving side to side as the engine is running. Correct.
After 13k on the previous build,  I can confidently say no. There was no tell tail mark from the rocker ever contacting the rock box boss on the none thrust end prior to shimming and none after 13k running .003 end clearance.
Ron
I came over to the Dark Side. They have chocolate kisses.

Offline krimp

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #13 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 08:05:54 PM. »
I think everyone hears noises differently,just as the noises are different for individual bikes depending on your windshield or your fairing or even the helmets we wear. I had 16 thous. of a gap on my rockers and put in .010 shims. Made a big difference to my right ear but none to my left.

Offline TXCHOP

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #14 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 10:46:09 PM. »
Save the money and extra work. It won't gain anything. Here's why. If you notice the wear marks thrust is provided by the pushrod angle and will always remain against this surface. All the shims will do is reduce an unused clearance which never comes into play with the engine running.
If your rockers shift .012 during valve lift, I'd be junking the engine. :hyst:
Ron

You should see what vulcan rocker supports look like after 15k miles on 9b/f cams...... :wink:
:wwp:

Max

Sorry Max, no pics...But the clearance had to be at least .035. Wore grooves on the thrust sides.
Non thrust side was good as new. Not even a scuff. I just think the alloy was too soft. They werent loud either..go figure.

Running s/e billte this time around with the tw68. 

Offline Pushrod

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #15 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012. 11:03:14 PM. »
Txtchop, ild like to see the se rocker supports after 15,000 miles, with those drag race woods cams,

Offline prodrag1320

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #16 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 04:35:20 AM. »
DONT use shovel shims (I wouldnt use them on shovels either),they break apaer and will cause WAY more problems than having your rockers alittle loose.I machine into the support and use .100 shims I machine
www.veetwinperformance.com
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Offline TXCHOP

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #17 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 05:25:56 AM. »
Txtchop, ild like to see the se rocker supports after 15,000 miles, with those drag race woods cams,

Well, i am going to pull them down this winter and look..I figure i will have 7-8k on them by then...

Offline clawdog60

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #18 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 07:38:01 AM. »
prodrag is that just for the race bike or your streeter as well?

Online War Horse

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #19 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 08:08:59 AM. »
The "wavey" shovelhead shims are the worst idea ever, yep, they break and get into the works. The stock type flat shims dont break but dont do much if any good either.
A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory

Offline clawdog60

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #20 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 11:40:02 AM. »
Are the rocker arms oil pressurized through the push rod? I thought that they are.

Offline prodrag1320

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #21 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 12:30:13 PM. »
prodrag is that just for the race bike or your streeter as well?

street bikes.sh*t,theres no way ide even begin to worry about rocker arms being .005 or .010 off on the nitro bike!!!and WAR HORSE,the flat shims break too,neither should be used (they do make nice spark plug indexers though!!)
www.veetwinperformance.com
NITRO P/D HARLEY 7.14 @ 189/4.49 @ 167

Online War Horse

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #22 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 01:19:31 PM. »
 :banghead:
A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory

Offline Hillsidecyclecom

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #23 on: Friday, May 11, 2012. 04:18:09 PM. »
We've seen those wavy-washer/teflon seals kits get wadded up, as well.
Trying to get that area real snug, isn't going do anything, except make a mess.
Scott
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Offline clawdog60

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Re: Rocker shims again
« Reply #24 on: Sunday, May 13, 2012. 07:39:54 PM. »
So are the rocker arms getting slammed against the support cradle on each pushrod stroke?