Talked to Vern at Velva-Touch today. Needed a part for Pan lifters I bought from him years ago. If any one wants these lifters for Pan or Shovel better get them now. When present stock is gone there will be no more. Says the market is just not there due to poor economy. Will have to convert to his Evo lifters for Shovel and run Evo cam. I think Craig has already done this, or some form, but not with Velva.