Author Topic: Crank run-out??  (Read 9405 times)

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Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday, July 07, 2010. 07:05:13 AM. »
Quote
That is what started this site and that is what keeps it going.

IIRC it was an HD tech,,  :teeth:  Max

Quote
To say that only  1% of all Harleys have run out problems is insane. 

Oh, I don't know.. Include all the HDs ever made?? All the ones sitting in garages with less then 5K on em? All the ones that haven't bumped the rev limiter?

Max
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Offline HOGMIKE

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday, July 07, 2010. 07:37:15 AM. »
Quote
That is what started this site and that is what keeps it going.

IIRC it was an HD tech,,  :teeth:  Max

Quote
To say that only  1% of all Harleys have run out problems is insane. 

Oh, I don't know.. Include all the HDs ever made?? All the ones sitting in garages with less then 5K on em? All the ones that haven't bumped the rev limiter?

Max

HEY! That was an accident!!!
 :smiled:
HOGMIKE

Offline Ridetard

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday, July 07, 2010. 12:14:54 PM. »
Quote
That is what started this site and that is what keeps it going.

IIRC it was an HD tech,,  :teeth:  Max


(Bullsh&T)  :hyst:  Also referring to the old site.

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday, July 07, 2010. 12:26:09 PM. »
So who started it? Moe?  Max
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Offline skyhook

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday, July 07, 2010. 08:19:10 PM. »
i love to see this topic pop up

too lazy to read the thread

i will always say that i've had three hopped-up '03 and later twin cams and have never fixed the crank and have never had an issue

i ride mine, they don't rot in a garage, i ride pretty aggressively, too

if the thing aint shaking really bad or using a lot of oil, i dont worry!
always seem to get their azz wet?

Offline 04glide

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #30 on: Thursday, July 08, 2010. 04:52:27 PM. »
I have heard of more 05 and newer cranks twisting then the older forged ones. A cast crank will never be as strong as a forged one. Lets face it harley cranks are shitty and i don't see them changing back to a better design anytime soon. They are making money off the bikes shitty cranks and all.

Offline hogasm

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #31 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 04:10:35 AM. »
Read a memo some time back that on average a seven year old Harley has less than 8000 miles on it
04 SEEG
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Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #32 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 05:42:44 AM. »
We are building for performance. We know the deck we are dealt and we know the history. We no longer have a robust basic platform and that is the reality. It can be trussed and that costs time and $
Many of these cranks get checked cam side only. Check the drive side too.
Just because it doesn't wipe out an oil pump is no reason to disregard the drive side, the side that takes more beating.
As far as the alloys after they are reworked the cold forged (not cast) crank ends up very robust and saves weight, free, no cost to that lightening. I am running the CVO fixed by hoban with a set of rods I robbed from an older model. Will suit my build well and survive.
« Last Edit: Friday, July 09, 2010. 06:41:26 AM. by Deweysheads »

Offline HD99FXR3

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #33 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 06:23:20 AM. »
According to the people( Tman, Rev Perf, Hoban)  that are truing and welding the TC cranks, you cannot check them on a truing stand between centers. You must mount them in V blocks on the bearing journals, seems the journals are ground prior to assembly and the centers are distorted via the pressing and splining operations.

So If anybody checks a TC crank in a truing stand you will see massive amounts of rumout.

I did the reseach and asked the questions and that is what I was told by all three shops.

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #34 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 07:27:56 AM. »
According to the people( Tman, Rev Perf, Hoban)  that are truing and welding the TC cranks, you cannot check them on a truing stand between centers. You must mount them in V blocks on the bearing journals, seems the journals are ground prior to assembly and the centers are distorted via the pressing and splining operations.

So If anybody checks a TC crank in a truing stand you will see massive amounts of rumout.

I did the reseach and asked the questions and that is what I was told by all three shops.


I was involved in a rumout once.. Had a hangover for 3 days..  :wink:

Not sure where you got your info, could you post the source. did you talk to them?
First off we need to be taking about 06 Dyna or all 07s up..  Nothing wrong with centers on the prior ones.. 

The only source that I've seen was an infomercial from RP..

http://www.revperf.com/video/mp4/podcast20pt2.mp4

Brain found if you pressed apart the flywheel and spun the flywheel between centers all the surfaces ran true except drive side  blanched  area / center was off. I think that he correctly guessed the externally broached splines distorted the center on that side..  Brian calls it "blanched"  but google up blanching and  :hyst: .. 

Love the part where he dings his desk..

BTW first postcast he used "plane" where he should have used "axis"

Max
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Offline BAKON

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #35 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 08:11:51 AM. »
i love to see this topic pop up

too lazy to read the thread

i will always say that i've had three hopped-up '03 and later twin cams and have never fixed the crank and have never had an issue

i ride mine, they don't rot in a garage, i ride pretty aggressively, too

if the thing aint shaking really bad or using a lot of oil, i dont worry!

Exactly my thoughts. I just dont have to type it all now.
wasting time

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #36 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 08:22:25 AM. »
That's OK you won't be missing much.. Mostly "I think this".. "Well I think that"   :wink:  Max
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Offline speed limit

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #37 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 08:22:55 AM. »
ANYTHING that rotates 5,000 rpm needs to run true !
If it don`t scare you, It ain`t fast enough.

Offline Ridetard

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #38 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 08:55:24 AM. »
That's OK you won't be missing much.. Mostly "I think this".. "Well I think that"   :wink:  Max

Is this a way to feed one's ego?  If you're so annoyed with the opinions here, then why post at all?  I would think a man of your talent and experience would be way too busy to be an antagonist.
Im just sayin   :wink:

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #39 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 09:42:42 AM. »
I'm just pissed off cuz I wasted my time reading this..  :teeth:  Max


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Offline Princess Butt

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #40 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 10:02:43 AM. »
My '06 Ultra had a runout of less than .0001 at 35,000 miles.

Did I do something wrong?

The best defense is to make everyone believe you are totally bonkers.

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #41 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 10:25:51 AM. »
My '06 Ultra had a runout of less than .0001 at 35,000 miles.

Did I do something wrong?

Yeah,

The indicator end needs to touch the crankshaft someplace.. Ann you need to turn the motor over..  :wink:  Max
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Offline 02FYRFTR

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #42 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 11:55:51 AM. »
Hey maxheadflow!!  When are you and Nncy P going to make your PODCAST ??  I cannot want to see the dings and dangs !!

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #43 on: Friday, July 09, 2010. 12:29:01 PM. »
Hey maxheadflow!!  When are you and Nncy P going to make your PODCAST ??  I cannot want to see the dings and dangs !!

We were working on it but got stuck on which one of us plays the straight person and which plays the idiot.. Max
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Offline 11.7to1

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #44 on: Saturday, July 10, 2010. 08:33:18 PM. »
Precision grinding of a shaft is done to centers so can be checked that way. Grinding and lapping operations are normally performed last.

Offline shadylane

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #45 on: Saturday, July 10, 2010. 09:08:43 PM. »
My 2002 dyna had .017 run out. Found it while doing a hydraulic conversion. There was scoring on the end of the crank, cam-plate, pump and the cam-plate bushing. Put it back together with the stock parts and traded it in for a 09 dyna. Hope the 02 finally takes a shit during the 90 day warranty HD gives on used bikes. This way the new owner will get a new bottom end for free.
There was no signs that the crank was bad. No vibrations, sumping, sounds, nothing. Friends always commented on how quiet it was for a 88 twin cam. I probably lost karma trading it in but HD made the problem so I gave it back to them.
Wonder what problems I inherited buying the 09 dyna....

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #46 on: Saturday, July 10, 2010. 09:14:06 PM. »
There has to be some poetic justice here..  Not sure I'd admit it on a forum..  Max
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Offline HD99FXR3

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #47 on: Sunday, July 11, 2010. 05:20:20 AM. »
According to the people( Tman, Rev Perf, Hoban)  that are truing and welding the TC cranks, you cannot check them on a truing stand between centers. You must mount them in V blocks on the bearing journals, seems the journals are ground prior to assembly and the centers are distorted via the pressing and splining operations.

So If anybody checks a TC crank in a truing stand you will see massive amounts of rumout.

I did the reseach and asked the questions and that is what I was told by all three shops.


I was involved in a rumout once.. Had a hangover for 3 days..  :wink:

Not sure where you got your info, could you post the source. did you talk to them?
First off we need to be taking about 06 Dyna or all 07s up..  Nothing wrong with centers on the prior ones.. 

The only source that I've seen was an infomercial from RP..

http://www.revperf.com/video/mp4/podcast20pt2.mp4

Brain found if you pressed apart the flywheel and spun the flywheel between centers all the surfaces ran true except drive side  blanched  area / center was off. I think that he correctly guessed the externally broached splines distorted the center on that side..  Brian calls it "blanched"  but google up blanching and  :hyst: .. 

Love the part where he dings his desk..

BTW first postcast he used "plane" where he should have used "axis"

Max


Max, I personally talked to Tman, Brian and the main guy at Hoban all three said the same thing. V blocks or in the cases without the cam plate.  Over the short distance (center to center) the mashed center on the spline side will throw the measurement on the cam side out.

OBTW the Rumout was great last night.

Offline Showdog75

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #48 on: Sunday, July 11, 2010. 05:28:50 AM. »
According to the people( Tman, Rev Perf, Hoban)  that are truing and welding the TC cranks, you cannot check them on a truing stand between centers. You must mount them in V blocks on the bearing journals, seems the journals are ground prior to assembly and the centers are distorted via the pressing and splining operations.

So If anybody checks a TC crank in a truing stand you will see massive amounts of rumout.

I did the reseach and asked the questions and that is what I was told by all three shops.

I checked my crank both in a trueing stand and in the cases without the cam plate and came up with the exact same thing. Go figure. Another name to mention when talking about flywheel/crank service is Falicon. They trued/welded my crank that was .004 and got it to less than .001 for $150 and change. Btw that .004 crank was a 2001 model. 

Offline Max Headflow

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Re: Crank run-out??
« Reply #49 on: Sunday, July 11, 2010. 07:51:50 AM. »
Quote
First off we need to be taking about 06 Dyna or all 07s up..  Nothing wrong with centers on the prior ones.. 

I guess some missed what I said here..
The original poster was asking about an 05.. Centers are still good..

FWIW, I've seen different numbers in the case compared to centers on the earlier cranks but they are usually within 20%..

TT324 says
Quote
Run-Out(crankshaft in the crankcase) 0.0 – 0.010 IN. 0.0 – 0.254 MM
Run-Out (crankshaft on a truing stand) 0.0 – 0.004 IN. 0.0 – 0.102 MM

Flywheel Service Wear Limits:
Run-Out(crankshaft in the crankcase) 0.012 IN. 0.305 MM
Run-Out(crankshaft on a truing stand) 0.005 IN. 0.127 MM
Which I think is flat wrong..

and it's for

Quote
Additionally, the run-out specifications listed in 1999-2007 service manuals need to be
corrected..
:emsad:

Notice they still say centers..

Max
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