Author Topic: EV-13 cam.....opinions?  (Read 9692 times)

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Offline rad3766

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EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« on: Saturday, March 13, 2010. 11:38:43 AM. »
 :horse: Ok, now thats out of the way to begin with, I know this has been discussed before..... :embarrassed:
Im looking at a flea bay EV-13 (used) to put into Miss Suzy, shes a 98 FL, fuel injected, stock exhaust, no engine work, she does have a K&N air filter.
The seller says he went back to the stock cam after the dealer who installed it told him he would need ECM work to make the 13 work right; Ive always had the impression it was a drop in and go cam, neither mechanical or fuel system work was needed.
Anyway, looking for feedback on the 13; it fits my budget (cheap) and riding style; I short shift her, rarely run past 4200 and usually have her loaded like a rented mule.    :soda:

                                                                                      TIA, Bob
98 FLHTPI Miss Suzy HOG, AMA, IBA, PGR

Offline crazylore

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, March 13, 2010. 02:32:27 PM. »
I have an EV13 in my 96 FLSTF...hypercharger...extra plate clutch.. and I am quite happy with it ... a lot better than stock...runs strong for a bolt in....pulls hard... good midrange improvement cam for how I ride.... big improvement when I ride 2up or loaded down...cam is pretty much petered out around 4500- 4600 rpm or so....have done 130+mph on this.....change the bearing while your in there...although most seem to like the EV27 for a bolt in there is some but not that much differance ..IMO.....if it is in good shape and the price is right it is an easy install......do u already have adj pushrods ?
« Last Edit: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 11:14:02 AM. by crazylore »
96FLSTF       04FLSTFI 95"

Offline dubepj

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, March 13, 2010. 05:34:28 PM. »
Hello
I've got a 97 Road king that I'd like to install and EV-27 cam but I'm also concerned that it won't run right without a new program job on the Fuel injected system.  Can I just put in the new cam and hope for the best.  The bike is stock except for high flow mufflers.  Your thoughts please.

Offline Grayrider

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 09:08:21 AM. »
I just put an EV 27 in my 97' Heritage a few weeks ago. Been out a few times just taking it easy and letting everything settle in.  Still crappy weather to ride and just sneaking a ride here and there when the sun shines!
Changed cam, lifters, added adjustable pushrods, cam bearing and cam seal. Have Kerker pipes.  Otherwise stock. All new gaskets and 'O' rings on rod covers. Added hydraulic chain tensioner and a new starter. A lot of changes and want to let it all settle in.
Noticed a little more snap when I throttle even at low speeds and RPM. Twisted it a few times. Cam is noticeable at about 2500 - 2600 RPM. Pulls hard. Haven't let it run up past 4000 as I want it to  take it easy until I can do a longer ride.
Checking the specs, the EV13 comes on at a little lower RPM [about 2000] and drops off a little sooner [4500] than the 27 [5500]. It is made mostly for 2 up and loaded up riding. It will come on lower to help with the load.  But, I think as I ride pretty conservative, it would be OK for me.
Stock EVO is usually the 'N' grind cam as was mine. You could also consider the Harley 'L' grind as it is very close to the EV27 and probably work well.
All are drop in cams and I only had to adjust my idle a bit. Everything else the same!  Bike started right up after change and I'm not even sure I will need to jet. Won't know until I bring the revs up a bit more.  I did notice the pipes are a bit louder as the exhaust valve stays open a little longer.

Other than that, an easy change. Step by step here:
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdcaminstall00.htm
 
You never see a motorcycle parked outside a therapists office!

Online Dogbone45ACP

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 09:31:37 AM. »
I ran a EV13 in my 89 FLTHC for years. I think its a great bagger cam. Really pulled good with 3.37 gears. Swap cam gears before you install it. Your stock gear should be set for proper backlash. As for the fuel injection a Powercomander PCIIIUSB with a good tune would be a good idea. Reuse the stock pushrods,less to give problems.
« Last Edit: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 09:34:52 AM. by Dogbone45ACP »

Offline Bruno-Katz Fokkerpilot

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 03:26:35 PM. »
I installed one last year in my `97 Fatboy. I also changed out the lifters, breather gear and cam bearing while i was in there. I didn`t notice an imediate improvement, it kinda creeps up on you as the cam settles in. The motor is stock apart from pipes, air cleaner and Mikuni carb.
I find that cruising around 65mph has become much easier, it seems she runs faster with less effort and less vibration. Living in the UK where gas is around $1.55 per litre at the moment, fuel consumption was a major factor for me in choosing the cam. I can honestly say that i still get exactly the same MPG as i was getting with the stock cam. And, as has been pointed out on here, you can use the stock pushrods as the EV 13 has the same base circumference as a stock cam. To make things easier, i removed the rocker covers to remove and replace the pushrods. While you`ve got these off, its a good idea to replace the Umbrella valves before re-assembly.
Peace...those brief moments in history when everyone stands around reloading....

Offline 96roadking

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 05:57:00 PM. »
The EV-13 is one of the best cam choices for a Touring bike. It produces the Torque in the RPM ranges that Touring bikes generally see most of the time including carring heavier loads, 2 up ridding, luggage, trailer, side car. Not to many riders that have Touring bikes Hot Rod them around town. The lighter bikes usually fit the bill for that. The EV-27 or larger cam would be better suited for that type of riding were higher RPM horsepower is needed. The EV-13 pulls great off the line, on hills and passing on the highway. If you like to chug along and the RPMs generally never see anything higher than 4500 then the EV-13 is the one to go with. It's quieter than the EV-27 because of the ramp design. Ideally the EV-27 needs a compression bump in order for it to perform the way it's designed. Without it it still has a lot of bang for the buck, that's why it's liked so much. If you had 2 identical bikes, each one with one of these cams the EV-13 would pull a little harder on the low end then the EV-27. The the EV-27 would pull harder on the top end like at highway speeds 75+. Decide on your riding style and choose whats right for you.
Generally with any cam change, intake (air and fuel) have to be increase to benefit from the higher valve lift and duration. Same goes for the exhaust, it has to have less restriction. The motor needs to breath. This is how the cam increases performance. A bolt in cam means there is no major mods needed to install it like head work, pistons, ignition, etc. You will need to make some adjustments in order for it to perform correctly.
My bike when stock with just a K&N filter, and Samson Silver Bullet exhaust needed a jet increase from 42 pilot to 45 and a 160 to a 185 high speed jet. This was done through some testing to find the best plug readings and most pulling power. With a smaller high speed jet the bike wouldn't pull any more. Now it keeps pulling and and the plugs look perfect.
One more thing just for a comparison, with the lower gearing of a Touring bike and a EV-13 cam, it can pull away from a Softail with a EV-27. The Softail will have to down shift to a lower gear to catch up providing all other things are equal like compression, heads, etc.

Offline rad3766

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 06:03:04 PM. »
Thanks for all the replies guys; I understand the 27 is a very popular cam, I have considered it also, its a little outside of the RPM range I run in.
Definitley upgrading the inner bearing, already have adjustable pushrods and Jims lifters installed around 30k miles ago, may just go ahead with some new 'B' lifters, and prolly a fresh breather gear too.   :idea:

                                                                                                       Bob
98 FLHTPI Miss Suzy HOG, AMA, IBA, PGR

Offline 4DogsanaHog

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 07:27:05 PM. »
Rad, just curious, what brand and part number are you using for adjustable push rods? I'm looking for a dependable set.
4Dogs
You can't get rid of a bad temper by losing it!

Offline rad3766

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, March 14, 2010. 09:25:26 PM. »
Rad, just curious, what brand and part number are you using for adjustable push rods? I'm looking for a dependable set.
4Dogs

Went with the Screaming Eagles, if for no other reason than having a credit at the dealer.  :soda:
98 FLHTPI Miss Suzy HOG, AMA, IBA, PGR

Offline Buddy WMC

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #10 on: Monday, March 15, 2010. 02:58:34 AM. »
Rad, just curious, what brand and part number are you using for adjustable push rods? I'm looking for a dependable set.
4Dogs

Went with the Screaming Eagles, if for no other reason than having a credit at the dealer.  :soda:


SE Chromemoly EZ Just adjustables are very underrated. They are priced right, are extremely strong and are dependable. Running them for awhile now with my high .585 lift VT cam. They also do not interfere with the pushrod tubes.

Offline baldoldfxr

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #11 on: Monday, March 15, 2010. 04:29:43 AM. »
I'm also using the SE pushrods with  4 valve heads & no problems :up:

Offline 4DogsanaHog

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #12 on: Monday, March 15, 2010. 05:42:24 AM. »
Thanks to everyone for the good information.
Buddy WMC, I will go with the SE Chromemoly EZ Just, BUT, I can't find them in my Harley Accessories books. Can you please give me the HD Screamin' Eagle part number for these pushrods?

Thanks,
4Dogs
You can't get rid of a bad temper by losing it!

Offline Buddy WMC

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #13 on: Monday, March 15, 2010. 01:05:24 PM. »
Yup,
17987-98A, got an extra set in stock for spares.

Offline 4DogsanaHog

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #14 on: Monday, March 15, 2010. 05:14:23 PM. »
Thank you, Buddy!

4Dogs
You can't get rid of a bad temper by losing it!

Offline ClassicRider2002

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday, March 16, 2010. 08:17:15 AM. »
The following cam is used specifically in a TWIN CAM Engine, but note the "exact" same characteristics that the Andrews 21 "TW" "G" "N" "H" has and compare it specifically to the Andrews EV23 which is for the "EVO" Engine:

(*) Timing and duration listed for .053 cam lift.

                                       Duration    Valve    Lift @
216821 21N:      Timing(*)   .053 .020    Lift      TDC Springs
                        10/30       .220 .255   .498     .134
                        40/08       .228 .264   .498     .121

Bolt-in cam: More torque for all around riding with heavy bikes, stock compression ratios and stock pistons. Similar to #23 cam for EV80. (1700-4800 RPM).

CLICK HERE:  ANDREWS PDF FOR TWIN CAM STYLED CAMS

                                             Duration     Valve   Lift @
STOCK (N)              Timing(*)   .053 .020    Lift      TDC
                            -02/30       .208 .250   .472     .070
92-up (carburetors) 31/-09        .202 .242   .472     .049                 

Listed for reference. "N" cam is close to '84-'87 specs.
Fuel Injector "O" cams are 200 deg int. and 216 exh.

                                                Duration     Valve   Lift @
291113 EV13               Timing(*)   .053 .020    Lift      TDC
                                15/31        .226 .270   .485     .161
                                45/13        .238 .280   .495     .148

Bolt-in street/touring cam for heavy bikes. Much more low and mid-range power than either stock cam. Best cam for 2 up riding with camping gear and side cars.
EV13 cams run great with fuel injectors or carburetors!

                                                Duration     Valve   Lift @
291123 EV23               Timing(*)   .053 .020     Lift      TDC
                                10/30        .220  .255   .498     .134
                                40/08        .228  .264   .498     .121

Mild bolt-in street cam with more torque and HP for all around riding with stock comp ratio. Similar to stock L cam but more output. Pulls from 1800-5200 RPM.
EV23 cams run great with fuel injectors or carburetors!

                                                Duration     Valve   Lift @
291127 EV27               Timing(*)   .053 .020    Lift      TDC
                                20/36        .236 .270   .495     .182
                                46/14        .240 .274   .495     .166

A great bolt in cam for stock EV80 engines using state of the art design. Very strong, broad torque band which will pull hard from 2000 to 5500 RPM.
EV27 cams run great with fuel injectors or carburetors!

CLICK HERE: ANDREWS PDF FILE FOR EVO STYLE CAMS

CLICK HERE: 95 CONVERSION BY JOE MINTON AmericaN IRON

I have linked anyone that cares to read about the "JOE MINTON" BUILD for TWIN CAM Engines above and you might ask why?  Well simply that Joe Minton first began his R&D specifically with the EVO engine....you will discover that he was deeply involved in the EV13's development first creating it and then creating what some may recognize as the JM20 IE: Joe Minton 20 which is basically still available through Andrews for twin cam engines if one special orders it, Andrews refers to that cam as a "24" under the TWIN CAM area of their cams but as I said it must be a special order.....ie:$$$$.  The characteristics or "grind" of the JM20 or Andrews "24" is very very close to the EV23 and the Andrews 21.  The intake close angle of the 21 and 23 is 30 and the lift of both cams is very close as well the EV23 and The Andrews 21 having .498 while the JM20/"24" having .500 there are a couple of minor other differences that keep them from being an exact match of course but once again they are very very close.

So while this "horse" has left the barn for others who may consider the EV13 as a possible cam choice for a "touring" model EVO I would give careful consideration to the merits of the EV23 as it matches perfectly with that of what is being put into twin cams as well with the Andrews 21.  You will notice that there is a difference primarily in the intake close angle of both cams ie: 30 vs 31 and that the EV23 features .498 lift vs .485 and .495.

Granted rad3766 had an opportunity through ebay to pick up some potential "value" with the EV13 and it is a fine cam but for anyone reading at a later date I would state that considering the EV23 could provide as good of an option if one were investing their dollars at "new" values and attempting to make a decision and determining the merits of the EV13.

The other reason I bring up the idea of capturing some of what Joe Minton has been offering through his experience with the TWIN CAMS is that many owners with the evo engines on their touring bike models might be able to "gleen" some of his r&d and apply it to their evos as the evo heads are less restrictive than the twin cam heads.

I listed the EV27 which is quite popular with evo owners as well......for comparisons sake...

Regards,

"Classic"
« Last Edit: Tuesday, March 16, 2010. 08:25:05 AM. by ClassicRider2002 »
MIGHTY MOUSE CAM
LOW END TORQUE JUNKIE 2

Offline rad3766

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday, March 16, 2010. 02:51:06 PM. »
Classic, wow thanks. Thats a lot of good info you layed out.  :beer:
98 FLHTPI Miss Suzy HOG, AMA, IBA, PGR

Offline 96roadking

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday, March 18, 2010. 07:54:26 PM. »
Lots of good info here to read. They say the EV-13 and EV-23 are both in the same ball park and very little difference between the EV-13 and EV-27. I contacted Andrews Cams and they said either cam would do the job of coarse how you tune it is a deciding factor. They are very close in performance. The EV-23 would give just a tad more low end power than the EV-13 but the not quite as good on the higher end as the EV-13.
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdstage2.htm

Offline apendejo

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #18 on: Thursday, March 18, 2010. 08:02:03 PM. »
The Crane 300-2B is another option, very similar to the EV-13. Even tho Crane is no longer around I am sure there is some NOS out there.
AP

Offline Evo1

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #19 on: Thursday, March 18, 2010. 09:13:16 PM. »
I had the Crane 300-2B in my bagger before replacing it with an EV27. I liked the 300-2B better. Replaced the 27 with a VT 5005. The 27 was nosier and didn't have as much low end torque, but it was great on the highway.

Offline Buddy WMC

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #20 on: Friday, March 19, 2010. 04:42:04 AM. »
I had the Crane 300-2B in my bagger before replacing it with an EV27. I liked the 300-2B better. Replaced the 27 with a VT 5005. The 27 was nosier and didn't have as much low end torque, but it was great on the highway.

How do you like the VT5005?

Offline 4DogsanaHog

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #21 on: Monday, March 22, 2010. 06:44:04 AM. »
Now, if only i could find .030" head gaskets sold seperately. Seems impossible to find. All i see is complete top end gasket kits! WTF? Can anyone direct me to a place that sells the .030" gaskets seperately?
Thanks,
4Dogs
« Last Edit: Monday, March 22, 2010. 06:47:53 AM. by 4DogsanaHog »
You can't get rid of a bad temper by losing it!

Offline fxr4mikey

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #22 on: Monday, March 22, 2010. 06:20:04 PM. »
Lots of good info here to read. They say the EV-13 and EV-23 are both in the same ball park and very little difference between the EV-13 and EV-27. I contacted Andrews Cams and they said either cam would do the job of coarse how you tune it is a deciding factor. They are very close in performance. The EV-23 would give just a tad more low end power than the EV-13 but the not quite as good on the higher end as the EV-13.
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdstage2.htm



that Classic guy sure is a windy fella .....   :teeth: :hyst:


Hi Tim !!!!!!!! good to see some more of your postings again !!


See you soon in Maggie Valley   ???
80" EVO - FXR4
SE Heads w/Adj pushrods
.030 HG Wood W6 Cam HSR42 Carb

Offline fxr4mikey

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #23 on: Monday, March 22, 2010. 06:24:43 PM. »
Now, if only i could find .030" head gaskets sold seperately. Seems impossible to find. All i see is complete top end gasket kits! WTF? Can anyone direct me to a place that sells the .030" gaskets seperately?
Thanks,
4Dogs

do a google search for it .....

search James or Cometic .....  Cometic sells the .030 head gaskets as separate items

make sure to use MLS  !!
80" EVO - FXR4
SE Heads w/Adj pushrods
.030 HG Wood W6 Cam HSR42 Carb

Offline mp

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Re: EV-13 cam.....opinions?
« Reply #24 on: Monday, March 22, 2010. 08:26:09 PM. »
  As long as we're bringing up Joe Minton, he is on record stating his EV13 is a better cam than the EV23, and he would recommend his JM20 over the TW21 if it was still available.  Joe is the guy who came up with Mikuni's old "Pass a Truck" cam and carb combo, the Mikuni 42 with the Andrews EV13.  This was done after people found out that Harley's cams were all top end, requiring a lot of revs and downshifting to get any power out of them.  That wasn't what bagger pilots wanted.  They wanted power for a loaded bagger out on the highway without having to shift down to third gear to get by an 18 wheeler.  And that's why the 13 was developed.  But it's not just for baggers.  It's for anyone that wants that easy to access down low power.
  Also, there is a substantial difference between the EV13 and the EV27.  You don't get "on the cam" with the EV27 til you're going 70mph in top gear.  EV13 comes on substantially sooner and is a much more pleasant cam in all but out and out racing situations.  You're "on the cam" with the EV13 a lot more of the time in the rpm range the average guy spends most of his time in.
I have an EV13 in my FXRS and find it is perfect for how I ride.  I never race anyone, but when I need to get on it for one reason or another, the power comes on in a big hurry.  In fact, sometimes I get surprised by how fast the bike wants to get out ahead of me.  The EV13 has not hurt my fuel mileage.  I average 47-51mpg, and that might be a little better than stock.  I do not notice any additional valvetrain noise, as many do with the EV27.
  I'm not knocking the EV27.  It's a great cam for the way a lot of guys ride.  But it's not for everyone.