Author Topic: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews  (Read 6207 times)

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Offline albertg

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Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« on: Wednesday, July 15, 2009. 12:39:18 PM. »
Hey Gang,

Brand new to this forum.  The folks at HDforum recommended posting my questions here.

I need some advice on new cams and the new cam chain tensioner systems from HD and Andrews for an 04 Fat Boy (TC88, 95ci, 251 cams, SE lifters, heavy duty valve springs, adj push-rods, SE ICM).

My SE lifters seized and destroyed my cams. I am considering installing HD's new hydraulic cam chain tensioner kit (part no. 25284-08) -OR- the Andrews Hydraulic Roller Chain Conversion kit and new cams while we're in there. As for cams, I am considering Andrews' 54N or 55N grinds.

I spoke with an Andrews rep. He said Andrew's new roller chain cam tension conversion kit contains the 'exact' same parts that are now in all 2009 TC96 motors. He said if I order the corresponding HD cam parts, and oil pump for a '09 TC96, it is exactly the same as the Andrews conversion kit, and will work with the Andrews N-cams in my TC88.  The only difference is that the "inner" cam bores on the 'N-series' cams are .875 to accomodate the TC88 motors.  The outer bores in both the Andrews and the 2009 HD cam plate are the 'current' larger spec.

Can anyone confirm that the corresponding Harley cam parts and oil pump for a 2009 TC96 motor are the same as the Andrew's roller chain conversion kit?

Andrews said that HD's hydraulic cam chain tensioner kit (part no 25284-08) that was made to upgrade TC88 motors is really a 'hybrid' of the old and new HD cam systems.  It has the smaller diameter .875 inner/outer cam bores for TC88s, a new cam plate, hydraulic shoes, roller chain and high-cap oil pump).  By contrast, the cam plate in the Andrews kit for TC88s has the larger outer cam bores of a 2009 TC96 motor. The Andrews N-cams are designed accordingly...smaller inner bores...larger outer bore.  The N-cams cannot be used with the HD 25284-08 kit for TC88s....this kit uses conventional cams with the smaller inner/outer bores.

To complicate matters further, my indy is telling me he doesn't think the oil passages in the current (07 and later) HD cam plate will mate with my '04 TC88. He is recommending the HD 25284-08 kit for my bike.  Some others are recommending the HD 25284-08 kit as the smaller outer cam bore will allow more HD and aftermarket cam options for future mods.  Right now I’m leaning toward the HD 25284-08 kit and Andrews corresponding cams.

With regards to cam grinds, Andrews recommended the 54N over the 55N for my motor. He said I'll get a little more high-end pull and less low-end pull from the 55N (2600-6200 RPM) vs. the 54N cam (2200-5600).

Is there any problem with either Andrews cam above for my bike?

Where can I get the best pricing on Andrew's cams? Zanotti??

Any and all advice much appreciated...
Regards
AlbertG

Offline KumaRide

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, July 15, 2009. 12:57:40 PM. »
Some relevant info. in this thread but more importantly, contact Herko - see post #21. He is mentioned very positively multiple times in this thread as well as many other threads...


http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=13507.0

Offline Michrider

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, July 15, 2009. 01:20:51 PM. »
For the cam recommendation, do you know what your compression is?  What pistons, head CC, head gaskets...who did the port work...

Knowing exactly what the pistons and headwork are will get some good cam recommendations going here.

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, July 15, 2009. 04:20:11 PM. »
For clarification only
Andrews
T-man
Bob Woods
Herko
All package a conversion kit of genuine HD parts. They are the same parts and made by the MOCO. These parts are not "Special" for the conversion but the same OEM parts used on the 07up new TC motorcycles. The only element of the conversion that is aftermarket is the camshaft because the 07up cams use a larger inner cam bearing. The conversion cams have the roller chain front and the smaller earlier .875 OD bearing race.
As far as who to buy those parts from any of the sources listed plus your HD dealer of choice.
I do know that if the kit is purchased from Herko there is "value added" in the form of advice and assurance of the right quantites of the proper parts, which can help
« Last Edit: Wednesday, July 15, 2009. 04:28:12 PM. by Deweysheads »

Offline smoserx1

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #4 on: Thursday, July 16, 2009. 05:06:29 AM. »
My 2 cents on all of this.  Your indy is incorrect.  The 07 type plate will work fine in your 04.  That is what the Andrews conversion kit is all about.  Either of these solutions is better than what you have, but if it were me I would go with the Andrews conversion and here is why.  There are two schools of thought on why the old style tensioners like you have now wear out so quickly:  1. The tensioners use excessive spring force and 2. The rough, non-rolling faces of the Morse chains cause excessive wear.  Nobody can tell you which one is the worst culprit, but you can believe that Harley thought both of them were a problem as the 07 stile setup gets rid of them both.  The spring loaded tensioners are replaced with hydraulic units, and the Morse chains are replaced with roller chains.  With the Andrews type conversion you get all this, using actual Harley parts (except for the cams), as others have said.

With that kit you are leaning toward, you retain the Morse chain to drive the cams on the inboard side of the plate.  What if it continues to wear the inner tensioner almost as fast as the old setup did?  You don't know.  Nobody does yet, it hasn't been out long enough to tell.  With the Andrews type conversion you get the 07 style setup complete, which seems to have proven itself by now, and for me it becomes a no brainer.  JMHO.  Good luck.

Offline notlost_nc

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #5 on: Thursday, July 16, 2009. 05:41:42 AM. »
I've had the Andrews kit in my '05 Ultra for almost 2 years now.  It uses the same parts as an '07.   On the Andrews website there is a complete list of parts required.  The only aftermarket parts you'll need is the cams.   At the time I bought the parts,  Zanotti's had the best price,  the oil pump was really priced low.   I got the cams from M&M.    The system runs smooth,  no problems I can see or hear.   
84 FLTC
05 FLHTCUI

Offline albertg

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #6 on: Thursday, July 16, 2009. 07:57:41 AM. »
Thanks for the advice everyone...

I will stay away from HDs new 'hybrid' cam tensioner with the older in-board Morse chain.  I will look to the Andrews kit or something similar.  I sent correspondence to Herko for advice, and for info on his kits, and cams.

I'll post the outcome...

Thanks all...
Regards



Offline zn14

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #7 on: Thursday, July 16, 2009. 08:15:50 AM. »
I just got a kit from herko......great guy to work with.....and the hydrolic setup is really quiet.....

Offline 02FYRFTR

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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner kit for TC88 - HD or Andrews
« Reply #8 on: Thursday, July 16, 2009. 05:52:11 PM. »
What cylinder studs are you using ??